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Mac Forum / General / Hardware / February 2005



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Mini Mac Performance with 1 Gig of RAM

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Ringo Langly - 10 Feb 2005 14:47 GMT
Hi all,

My current machine is a PowerMac G4 dual-867 with 768 megs/RAM... and
I'm looking at getting a Mini Mac 1.25 and uping the ram to 1 Gig
(memory from Crucial, not Apple).

My question is what performance am I looking at with the Mini Mac
compared to my current PowerMac G4?  Though the processor is the same
and it'll have more RAM in the Mini, the Mini will only have the 2.5"
4200 RPM HD while my PowerMac has a 7200 RPM drive.  Will this ping
performance any?  I checked NewEgg, and either I was searching wrong or
they don't have any 2.5" drives other then a couple of high-performance
ones for $400 and $800.  If I did find a 7200 RPM drive or 5400 RPM
even, would this help the performance on the Mini?

This computer will be used for work, so Photoshop, BBEdit, MS Office,
Entourage, etc.  Many of these apps will be running concurrently.  I
don't however need high-end video for gaming or video editing -- my
forte is graphics editing and web design.

Thanks .. just curious to see what this little $850 investment will
handle :)

Ringo
o-chan - 10 Feb 2005 15:59 GMT
> My current machine is a PowerMac G4 dual-867 with 768 megs/RAM... and
> I'm looking at getting a Mini Mac 1.25 and uping the ram to 1 Gig
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> and it'll have more RAM in the Mini, the Mini will only have the 2.5"
> 4200 RPM HD while my PowerMac has a 7200 RPM drive.

The performance will be similar I would guess.  Yeah, the drive is 4200,
and it does make a difference, but not that often.  Boot time will be
slower for example.

> I checked NewEgg, and either I was searching wrong or
> they don't have any 2.5" drives other then a couple of high-performance
> ones for $400 and $800.  If I did find a 7200 RPM drive or 5400 RPM
> even, would this help the performance on the Mini?

They DO have 2.5" drives.  Go into hardware - "see all categories" - and
then "notebook drives".

There are 7200 rpm 2.5" drives but they're not as big as the biggest
5400 rpm drives you can get.  I think you'll get a noticeable
performance increase with the 5400 rpm drive but probably not much of
one with the 7200 rpm drive.  Remember you've only got an ATA66 bus
connecting the drive.

Other World Computing also sells drives for the mini but I think Newegg
might be a little cheaper.  Both have a Seagate 100 GB 5400 rpm drive
listed, the biggest I've found so far.

> This computer will be used for work, so Photoshop, BBEdit, MS Office,
> Entourage, etc.  Many of these apps will be running concurrently.  I
> don't however need high-end video for gaming or video editing -- my
> forte is graphics editing and web design.

Your current computer doesn't sound so bad for those tasks.  I think
you'll only see a small performance gain in the mini.  Although, getting
rid of a bigger desktop model might be enough of a bonus to upgrade.

Good luck.
Ringo Langly - 10 Feb 2005 17:22 GMT
Hi o-chan,

I did find the 7200 RPM drives, and I might look at moving to one of
these soon - though they're not cheap.  Also thanks for the thing on
NewEgg, I'm not sure why they don't come-up with a standard HD search.

A 40 Gig 7200RPM drive is $113 and 60 Gig is $148.  I think this will
drastically improve the speed of the Mini Mac, so this might be worth
doing.

So at this point, here's my Mini Mac specs:

· 256MB DDR333 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
· 40GB Ultra ATA drive
· Combo Drive
· Internal Bluetooth + AirPort Extreme Card
· 56K v.92 Modem
· Mac OS X - U.S. English
· 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
Subtotal $568.00 (with my Student discount)

I'll spend another $219 at Crucial.com for 1 Gig of RAM and down the
road spend the $150 or so for a 7200 RPM drive.  This makes this little
system about $937 after it's all said and done... but other then video
it'll be a screamer :)  I already have several external Firewire IDE
drivebays, which I'll either stick the original 40Gig in or just pop
for a 200+ Gig HD for extra storage.  With these drivebays you can swap
HD's like floppy or zip disks :)

Thanks for the feedback, and take care.  

Ringo
BreadWithSpam@fractious.net - 10 Feb 2005 18:28 GMT
> A 40 Gig 7200RPM drive is $113 and 60 Gig is $148.  I think this will
> drastically improve the speed of the Mini Mac, so this might be worth
> doing.

It might also overheat it.

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Invid Fan - 10 Feb 2005 20:52 GMT
> > A 40 Gig 7200RPM drive is $113 and 60 Gig is $148.  I think this will
> > drastically improve the speed of the Mini Mac, so this might be worth
> > doing.
>
> It might also overheat it.

He just wants a blazing fast drive.

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Steve  Jankly - 10 Feb 2005 21:00 GMT
I upgraded my IBM Thinkpad X31 laptop to 1GB RAM & 60GB 7200RPM. There
was no heating or noise issues with the new drive. It doesn't product
any more heat than the old 4200rpm drive that was in it.
George Graves - 10 Feb 2005 21:54 GMT
> > A 40 Gig 7200RPM drive is $113 and 60 Gig is $148.  I think this will
> > drastically improve the speed of the Mini Mac, so this might be worth
> > doing.
>
> It might also overheat it.

I don't think he means an internal drive, but if he does, your point is
well taken.

Signature

George Graves
------------------
"Windows sucks. There's no doubt about it."
Bill Gates - CES-2005, Las Vegas, Nevada

BreadWithSpam@fractious.net - 10 Feb 2005 22:33 GMT
> > > A 40 Gig 7200RPM drive is $113 and 60 Gig is $148.  I think this will
> > > drastically improve the speed of the Mini Mac, so this might be worth
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I don't think he means an internal drive, but if he does, your point is
> well taken.

I'm pretty sure he does, as he keeps talking about
pricing out high-speed 2.5" drives.

I'm also pretty sure it's a bad idea.  Not positive, but
a strong suspicion.  

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Oxford - 11 Feb 2005 00:28 GMT
> > A 40 Gig 7200RPM drive is $113 and 60 Gig is $148.  I think this will
> > drastically improve the speed of the Mini Mac, so this might be worth
> > doing.
>
> It might also overheat it.

what? overheat it??? nah, it has a fan if needed, heat issues have been
engineered out of the design, any 2.5 drive will be fine...
clvrmnky - 16 Feb 2005 17:50 GMT
>>>A 40 Gig 7200RPM drive is $113 and 60 Gig is $148.  I think this will
>>>drastically improve the speed of the Mini Mac, so this might be worth
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> what? overheat it??? nah, it has a fan if needed, heat issues have been
> engineered out of the design, any 2.5 drive will be fine...

It depends.  Larger, faster drives make more heat.  Somewhere in the
neighbourhood of 5-7degC more, depending on the manufacturer.

<http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/reviews/article/1540.10/>

You'd have to be sure that the fan on the mini moves enough air to keep
the case temperature below a critical point.  One could accept the
operating temperature peaking as high as 40-45degC under load, but this
might also depend on other factors.  Either way, that is a lot of power
to dissipate as heat.

The mini is made of plastic, right?  I understand the chassis is some
kind of alloy.  Wasn't there a problem with early generating PowerBooks
deforming as a result of CPU and HD heat?  The other bits and pieces in
that little case have their own temperature ratings, as well.

I'd make sure that the idle temperature did not exceed much more than
whatever it is with the slower HD installed.  I'd be concerned if case
temp exceeded 35degC under load.  This assumes "normal" room
temperature, of course.  Kilometreage will vary.

-- cm
Mike - 10 Feb 2005 22:09 GMT
> > My current machine is a PowerMac G4 dual-867 with 768 megs/RAM... and
> > I'm looking at getting a Mini Mac 1.25 and uping the ram to 1 Gig
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> and it does make a difference, but not that often.  Boot time will be
> slower for example.

I would say that his current machine would easily beat the mini,
especially if it already has 7200 rpm drives.    That and the dual CPUs
and (probably) better video.

If you're looking for a replacement machine, then the mini will likely
disappoint you.    If you're just looking for a cheap second machine,
then it might be OK, although for the same amount of money a better used
Mac can be had on eBay.   Unless space is a consideration, then the mini
comes out ahead.

Ah, choices!

Mike
imouttahere@mac.com - 11 Feb 2005 00:39 GMT
>Your current computer doesn't sound so bad for those tasks.

#1 rule of upgrading, don't upgrade until you have to...

Keep the money in the bank and wait for a machine that is 2x the
performance of your current rig.

That's what I do.
Ringo Langly - 11 Feb 2005 12:40 GMT
> >Your current computer doesn't sound so bad for those tasks.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> That's what I do.

Hello everyone,

I'm not really upgrading per say -- my PowerMac G4 will continue to be
my primary machine at home with the Mini being a second unit when doing
work.  But _at_ work the Mini will become my primary machine replacing
a 1.4 Ghz Win 2K box.  The Win 2K box will still be there, but mainly
for Exchange Administrator, MS SQl Console Manager, and a few other
tools which won't run on Mac.

Ringo
Oxford - 10 Feb 2005 18:16 GMT
you can always get an external 3.5, 7200rpm drive and use it as your
main boot, app, file drive... that's cheaper than getting a slower 2.5
drive. the max size for a 2.5 is 100GB and is 5400. the fastest 2.5 is
7200 but is only 60GB. i suspect we'll see a boom in building 2.5 drives
that are higher capacity, higher speed, the huge demand for the mini
will make it so... but until then, using an external is the way to go if
you want max speed...

oxford

-
Steve Jankly - 10 Feb 2005 21:14 GMT
Or you can get a 200-250GB 7200RPM drive w/8MB cache, and put it in a
firewire enclosure and use that as the primary drive. It would be close
to the same price as the hitachi 60GB 7200rpm 2.5". But that won't add
to the sleekness of the Mini. Luxury comes at a cost, pretty much. It's
up to you. From my experience, I benchmarked the hitachi 7200rpm drive
on my ibm laptop, and it went 30MB/sec. I think theoretically, the
firewire port can handle a maximum of 50MB/sec (400Mbit/sec / 8). So a
250GB drive will probably go 40MB/sec, and you might saturate the port
if you use other firewire peripherals.

Steve
Ringo Langly - 10 Feb 2005 21:43 GMT
> Or you can get a 200-250GB 7200RPM drive w/8MB cache, and put it in a
> firewire enclosure and use that as the primary drive. It would be close
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Steve

Hi Steve and everyone else who replied...

I already use several Macally Firewire IDE bays on my Powermac G4 now,
and I was planning on using the same setup on the Mac Mini -- but I
didn't know you could boot from a Firewire drive.  All that asside, I'd
like to keep the boot drive internal mainly because this Mac will be
going betweek work and home, kinda like a laptop, but I'll connect it
to a KVM switch at each.

For me, I carry lots of work between work and home, and having a
computer I can move between the two is a major plus and one main reason
to get a Mini Mac.  I could get a laptop, but I want to use a full
keyboard and mouse at both ends, so the mini is perfect for me :)

At home though, I'll have my firewire drive with all my goodies while
at work I'll have another firewire drive with lots of other
work-related projects I don't need to carry home.  It's a win-win
situation.  Plus It'll be VERY nice to move off Windows as my primary
box at work.  I'll still have it here for MS SQL Management Console and
the Windows-only apps we use up here, but not for web production, image
editing, email, and the other tasks.

Thanks again for all the great replies and suggestions, and at this
point I guess I'm still eyeing a 7200 RPM drive down the road.

Take care,

Ringo
TRB - 16 Feb 2005 12:04 GMT
> For me, I carry lots of work between work and home, and having a
> computer I can move between the two is a major plus and one main reason
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Ringo

Hi,
I have reduced my carrying needs even further, I just carry a portable firewire
harddrive with the data.
Hook it up to the computer at work, or the labtop at home...
No need to carry a computer anymore.
TravelinMan - 16 Feb 2005 15:52 GMT
> > For me, I carry lots of work between work and home, and having a
> > computer I can move between the two is a major plus and one main reason
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Hook it up to the computer at work, or the labtop at home...
> No need to carry a computer anymore.

Assuming that every computer you might want to hook your hard drive to
will have all the apps you want to use.

And also ignoring the fact that the Mini isn't much larger than your
external drive.
Tim Smith - 22 Feb 2005 04:40 GMT
> > Hi,
> > I have reduced my carrying needs even further, I just carry a portable
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Assuming that every computer you might want to hook your hard drive to
> will have all the apps you want to use.

How about putting the apps on the portable hard drive?  That's what I
did a few years ago, back when a gig was a big drive.  I had a 1.6 gig
external SCSI drive that I carried between home and work.  I had all my
work projects on it, and all my developer tools.

This would have been a bit tricky with Windows, but this was for a Mac
project, and so worked out great.

Signature

--Tim Smith

TravelinMan - 22 Feb 2005 05:03 GMT
In article
<reply_in_group-14D3E8.20404521022005@news1.west.earthlink.net>,

> > > Hi,
> > > I have reduced my carrying needs even further, I just carry a portable
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> This would have been a bit tricky with Windows, but this was for a Mac
> project, and so worked out great.

Yes, it will normally work fine for a Mac.

It will be a significant problem for Windows.

For Linux, it's going to be problematic, as well, because of all the
different distributions. You'd almost have to keep the source code on
the hard drive and compile it for each version.
Edwin - 22 Feb 2005 07:54 GMT
> In article
> <reply_in_group-14D3E8.20404521022005@news1.west.earthlink.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> For Linux, it's going to be problematic, as well, because of all the
> different distributions. You'd almost have to keep the source code on

> the hard drive and compile it for each version.

So you're saying that Linux applications must be recompiled for every
distribution?

I cross posted this to Linux Advocacy so the guys who actually know
something about Linux can have some laughs at your expense, Joe.
Peter Köhlmann - 22 Feb 2005 08:19 GMT
< snip >

>> Yes, it will normally work fine for a Mac.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> I cross posted this to Linux Advocacy so the guys who actually know
> something about Linux can have some laughs at your expense, Joe.

Well, I am not really interested in the ravings of this imbecile. TravelBoy
has no idea about linux, all he says about it is pure, unadultered horse
manure
So why did you crosspost it? It is already quite clear that csma is full of
morons, so just more evidence is not needed
Signature

Modern man is the missing link between apes and human beings.

TravelinMan - 22 Feb 2005 12:41 GMT
> > In article
> > <reply_in_group-14D3E8.20404521022005@news1.west.earthlink.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> So you're saying that Linux applications must be recompiled for every
> distribution?

No, Ediot. I'm saying that SOME Linux applications need to be recompiled
to work on SOME Linux distributions.

What part of that is too complicated for you?
Peter Köhlmann - 22 Feb 2005 12:57 GMT
>> > In article
>> > <reply_in_group-14D3E8.20404521022005@news1.west.earthlink.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> What part of that is too complicated for you?

Nope, you claimed something entirely different
You claimed that putting the apps for some workproject on a portable drive
would be difficult for windows, easy for the Mac and for linux "it's going
to be problematic, as well, because of all the different distributions.
You'd almost have to keep the source code on the hard drive and compile it
for each version"

Well, you have neither explained *why* it would be problematic, nor what
kind of apps would need to be recompiled. You may do so now. Be specific

Idiot
Signature

Some people are incredibly witty AND intelligent AND sexy.
But enough about myself...

Ray Ingles - 22 Feb 2005 14:00 GMT
> No, Ediot. I'm saying that SOME Linux applications need to be recompiled
> to work on SOME Linux distributions.

Hmm. Windows, with its registry, would make this tough (sticking an app
on an external drive and using it on multiple computers). Assuming the
app didn't *need* the registry, and/or recreated its registry values
when run, it could work. You'd probably want to put any required DLLs
in the same directory with the app. (God help you if it needs DirectX
or something, though.)

On the Mac, it's simpler because of the tradition of putting all
the apps files in one directory. (Makes some things easier, and
some harder - like making a separate partition for temporary files).
But OSX is Unix under the hood, and it's still possible there, so
that should be a hint that it can be done with Linux too.

Traditional Unix filesystem layouts lean against this a bit.
Different parts of apps (binaries, shared libs, config files,
temp files, etc.) tend to go in in different places on the system.
Plus some distributions are set up to prevent executing binaries
off of removable media (as a security precaution).

But even on Linux, it wouldn't be *terribly* hard. Most apps can be
compiled to be installed anywhere (take a look at the "PREFIX" and
"EPRIFIX" options to GNU autoconf, for example). Compile it statically
and you don't have to worry about shared libs at all.

If you don't have the source available, it's still not that big a
problem:

1. Run 'ldd' on the app, find out what libraries it needs.
2. Copy the app and the libs to the external drive.
3. Write a small wrapper script that sets up LIBPATH so the app
   can find the libraries when it runs.

That's one way. If you're root on the boxes involved, you can get
*really* clever, and play some 'mount' tricks to graft partitions
from the external drive into the filesystem on the boxes, so you
don't need to muck with the paths. Or just use symlinks. (No real
*need* to do this, just pointing out that there's more than one
way to do it.)

Note that most of this is only required if the necessary shared
libs aren't on all the boxes involved (and unlike Windows, there's
no problem with having multiple versions of a shared lib available
simultaneously). If, say, all of the boxes are the same distro,
you're golden.

Finally, there is one insurmountable problem that could torpedo
the whole thing. If you have Linux boxes on more than one hardware
platform (say, Intel, Alpha, PPC, SPARC, MIPS, ARM, 68K...) then
yeah, you have to recompile. But it's hard to argue that this is
a disadvantage of Linux until you can get Windows or Mac to run
on more than one hardware platform... :->

Signature

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                                      (313) 227-2317

"Bush is complaining about a lack of intelligence, which seems
            sort of redundant." - Robin Williams

TravelinMan - 22 Feb 2005 15:15 GMT
> > No, Ediot. I'm saying that SOME Linux applications need to be recompiled
> > to work on SOME Linux distributions.
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
> a disadvantage of Linux until you can get Windows or Mac to run
> on more than one hardware platform... :->

Bottom line is that you've supported my statement.

Doing this (putting your apps on a hard disk for use on any Mac) is
trivial. On Windows, it's very difficult. ON Linux, it's problematic.

Yes, it might be posisble IN SOME CASES with enough advance planning.
But that's exactly what 'problematic' means.

Thanks for supporting my position.
JEDIDIAH - 22 Feb 2005 17:00 GMT
[deletia]
>> platform (say, Intel, Alpha, PPC, SPARC, MIPS, ARM, 68K...) then
>> yeah, you have to recompile. But it's hard to argue that this is
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Yes, it might be posisble IN SOME CASES with enough advance planning.
> But that's exactly what 'problematic' means.

    Wrapping your binaries in something that would ensure that PATH
and LD_LIBRARY_PATH are suitably set is hardly problematic.

> Thanks for supporting my position.

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TravelinMan - 22 Feb 2005 17:17 GMT
> [deletia]
> >> platform (say, Intel, Alpha, PPC, SPARC, MIPS, ARM, 68K...) then
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>     Wrapping your binaries in something that would ensure that PATH
> and LD_LIBRARY_PATH are suitably set is hardly problematic.

Yes - compared to the way it works in OS X.
Tim Smith - 23 Feb 2005 08:59 GMT
> Yes - compared to the way it works in OS X.

Irrelevant.  The point is that if someone knows how to set up
applications on Linux, then installing them on an external drive so that
they can be used on more than one system is not really any harder in
most cases.

This is the same as it is in OS X: if you know how to set up an app
normally, you can set it up on an external drive for sharing without
much more work, usually (not always).

In Windows, on the other hand, generally this does not work.

If you want to talk about OS X apps being easier to install than Linux
apps, fine, but that has nothing to do with this thread.

Signature

--Tim Smith

Ray Ingles - 22 Feb 2005 17:31 GMT
>>  Note that most of this is only required if the necessary shared
>> libs aren't on all the boxes involved...

> Bottom line is that you've supported my statement.

Uh, no.  :->

> Doing this (putting your apps on a hard disk for use on any Mac) is
> trivial. On Windows, it's very difficult. ON Linux, it's problematic.

No. I basically said on Linux, 'it *can be* problematic', which is
very different from 'it *is* problematic'. (I'll note that it's the
closed-source apps that will have the most problems with this.)

In most cases, it's pretty simple. If the shared libraries the app
needs are available on all the boxes you're using (which will almost
always be the case), you can just pop the binary on the external
drive and go. If the program is statically-linked, you don't even
have to worry about that.

The only case where the shared libraries wouldn't be there is (a) really
bleeding-edge software (comparable to, say, apps that run on Panther but
not Jaguar...) or (b) really trailing-edge software (apps that won't run
on Panther but run on Jaguar...)

> Yes, it might be posisble IN SOME CASES with enough advance planning.

No, actually, it's possible 'IN MOST CASES' without any planning.
I was just pointing out that, unlike Windows, any problems are
actually solvable in Linux.

Is it *easier* in OSX? I'll give you that. Is it *much easier*? Nah.

Signature

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                                     (313) 227-2317

"The philosophy exam was a piece of cake - which was a bit of
a surprise, actually, because I was expecting some questions
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Jim Richardson - 22 Feb 2005 20:38 GMT
>> > No, Ediot. I'm saying that SOME Linux applications need to be recompiled
>> > to work on SOME Linux distributions.
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>
> Thanks for supporting my position.

Bullshit. In some, rare cases, it may be problematic, in most cases,
it's very simple, and works very well. Obviously, if you try to run an
x86 binary on Arm, or PPC, you are going to have problems, in much the
same way that OS9 can't run PPC binaries on x86.

As has been pointed out to you by several folks, it is done with Linux,
and done quite a bit. So your claims re it being "problematic" are mere
balderdash.

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Jim Richardson     http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Chaos, panic, & disorder - my work here is done

sberry - 22 Feb 2005 17:26 GMT
>>So you're saying that Linux applications must be recompiled for every
>>distribution?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> What part of that is too complicated for you?

Dunno about him, but the complicated/confusing part of what you say for
me lies around compilation. Most packages come in RPM form and
installation is a no-brainer. The only package I've had to compile in
the last two years is Limewire (which is the same on every Linux), ie
./configure && make && make install. I think I compiled nano once too.
TravelinMan - 22 Feb 2005 19:24 GMT
> >>So you're saying that Linux applications must be recompiled for every
> >>distribution?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> the last two years is Limewire (which is the same on every Linux), ie
> ./configure && make && make install. I think I compiled nano once too.

That's assuming that you have the correct rpm for every conceivable
Linux distro on the hard disk. Which is problematic.
jdavyd williams - 22 Feb 2005 20:07 GMT
> That's assuming that you have the correct rpm for every conceivable
> Linux distro on the hard disk. Which is problematic.

ever heard of platform independent RPMs?
TCS - 22 Feb 2005 21:16 GMT
>> >>So you're saying that Linux applications must be recompiled for every
>> >>distribution?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>> the last two years is Limewire (which is the same on every Linux), ie
>> ./configure && make && make install. I think I compiled nano once too.

>That's assuming that you have the correct rpm for every conceivable
>Linux distro on the hard disk. Which is problematic.

That assuming you're using a 5 year old distribution.  When you're talking
out your a.s, TM, you need to at least make an attempt to have a clue.
Modern distro's handle dependancies and maintain a database of RPMS at
various ftp/web sites.
TravelinMan - 22 Feb 2005 21:43 GMT
In article
<slrnd1n89m.3d4.The-Central-Scrutinizer@linux.client.comcast.net>,

> >> >>So you're saying that Linux applications must be recompiled for every
> >> >>distribution?
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Modern distro's handle dependancies and maintain a database of RPMS at
> various ftp/web sites.

And that's exactly the point.

To accomplish this task (having all the applications on a portable hard
disk), you'll need to go to all those web sites, sort out the
dependencies, download all the different versions, and have them all on
the disk. Plus, know which one to use.
Rick - 22 Feb 2005 22:08 GMT
> In article
> <slrnd1n89m.3d4.The-Central-Scrutinizer@linux.client.comcast.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> dependencies, download all the different versions, and have them all on
> the disk. Plus, know which one to use.

Uh, no.
Dependencies are sorted out by systems like apt and urpmi. Those 'ftp/web'
sites can be repositories that the package management system contacts. ...
sot of like getting window$ or Mac apps from various sites except
dependency problems are taken care of.

Or.. you can DL from distro specific pages, in which case dependencies are
generally taken care of becai\use it is a distro specific site.

Signature

Rick

Jim Richardson - 22 Feb 2005 20:31 GMT
>> In article
>> <reply_in_group-14D3E8.20404521022005@news1.west.earthlink.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> I cross posted this to Linux Advocacy so the guys who actually know
> something about Linux can have some laughs at your expense, Joe.

It's a pretty silly claim. No, you don't have to recompile the app for
every distribution. For example, I have several commercial games on this
machine, Kohan (Immortal sovereigns IIRC) UT2004, UT, (well, had, it was
replaced by UT2004) Myth: Soulblighter, and some games via Cedega. Note
that none of these, not the games, nor Cedega were compiled with this
distro (Ubuntu), furthermore, most of the games, (with the exception of
UT2004) were also used on previous Debian installs, on SUSE 8.something,
and on Fedora Core and Gentoo. By me, they were also used by many
others, on other distros.

So no, you don't. It's not like there's a debian.so and redhat.so or
something...

But then, Joe often makes rather ludicrous claims regarding Linux.

Signature

Jim Richardson     http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help.
         -- Calvin

Tim Smith - 22 Feb 2005 15:36 GMT
> For Linux, it's going to be problematic, as well, because of all the
> different distributions. You'd almost have to keep the source code on the
> hard drive and compile it for each version.

Actually, it wouldn't be much of a problem.  There are two areas that you
might have to worry about.

1. Library versions.

If one of the systems is several years older than the other, you might run
into this, but it would be pretty rare.

2. File locations.

This would be more likely to be a problem.  E.g., if the application was
built to look for config files in a particular place, it could get annoying.
However, presuming that we are talking about applications that are not a
standard part of your distribution(s) (which is why they aren't available on
both systems already), you'd take care of this when configuring the
application when you install it on the external drive.

Signature

--Tim Smith

TravelinMan - 22 Feb 2005 15:59 GMT
> > For Linux, it's going to be problematic, as well, because of all the
> > different distributions. You'd almost have to keep the source code on the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> If one of the systems is several years older than the other, you might run
> into this, but it would be pretty rare.

But it happens.

> 2. File locations.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> both systems already), you'd take care of this when configuring the
> application when you install it on the external drive.

Exactly.

IOW, it IS problematic - no matter how much venom Peter spews on the
topic. More work, more planning, and more hard disk space.
Dan Becker - 11 Feb 2005 06:21 GMT
> My question is what performance am I looking at with the Mini Mac
> compared to my current PowerMac G4?  

Look at the performance report at Macintouch. In one of their
configurations for the Mac mini they did a drive swap much as you are
considering:

  €  Mac Mini/1.25GHz Combo: with 512 MBytes of RAM (512K L2 cache),
optional 80GB Toshiba hard drive; Mac OS X 10.3.7 (7T21). Also tested
with Seagate 160GB external hard drive, both via FireWire 400 and USB
2.0 connections.

  €   Mac Mini/1.25GHz/Fast 60GB: same system as above, replacing
Apple/Toshiba hard drive with a 60GB Hitachi Travelstar 7K60, which
runs at 7200 RPM with an 8-MByte cache.

They also have the benchmarks for other machines for comparison.

http://www.macintouch.com/perfpack/comparison.html

Dan
Scott Micciche - 15 Feb 2005 20:27 GMT
>>My question is what performance am I looking at with the Mini Mac
>>compared to my current PowerMac G4?  
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Dan
I have replaced my 4200 rpm in my mac mini with the 7200 rpm travelstar
and my temp is lower than the 4200 unit (using temp monitor lite).  It
is much faster than the original 4200 rpm, but expensive.  Luckily, I
had a buyer for my 80 gig 4200 unit and I didn't need that much space,
so it only wound up costing me $50 total.
imouttahere@mac.com - 17 Feb 2005 04:39 GMT
>had a buyer for my 80 gig 4200 unit and I didn't need that much space,

>so it only wound up costing me $50 total.

hmmm. I could do the same... put a travelstar in the mini and pop the
80GB and put it in my PBG4 (40GB). Not a bad plan...
 
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