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Mac Forum / General / Hardware / August 2004



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Can a Power Mac 8600 with PCI slots support a USB 2.0 card

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John Orwen - 16 Aug 2004 23:06 GMT
Can a Power Macintosh 8600 with PCI slots support a USB 2.0 card that says
it work with a Mac.  I am running OS 9.1
and I would like to use my HP photo printer with the 8600 and OS 9.2.  I
would like to share the printer with my G4 running OS 10.3.5 as well.  It
already has USB 2.0.
David C. - 17 Aug 2004 01:58 GMT
> Can a Power Macintosh 8600 with PCI slots support a USB 2.0 card
> that says it work with a Mac.  I am running OS 9.1 and I would like
> to use my HP photo printer with the 8600 and OS 9.2.  I would like
> to share the printer with my G4 running OS 10.3.5 as well.  It
> already has USB 2.0.

I know that these computers can take USB 1.1 ports.

I think 2.0 (more specifically, 2.0 high-speed) requires software
support.  I don't think MacOS 9.1 will include this support, so it
will depend on the driver (aka system extension) that comes with the
USB card.

I'd recommend you check out the manufacturer's web site and see if
the product spec says anything about this.

If you post the brand/model card you're considering, you might also
get a response from someone else who's already tried this, which
would be more useful than the manufacturer's spec sheet.

-- David
Don Bruder - 17 Aug 2004 08:03 GMT
> Can a Power Macintosh 8600 with PCI slots support a USB 2.0 card that says
> it work with a Mac.  I am running OS 9.1
> and I would like to use my HP photo printer with the 8600 and OS 9.2.  I
> would like to share the printer with my G4 running OS 10.3.5 as well.  It
> already has USB 2.0.

I'd bet that it will run the card, no problem, but I'd also bet that it
will only do USB 1.1 speeds.

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Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.

Johan W. Elzenga - 17 Aug 2004 11:58 GMT
> Can a Power Macintosh 8600 with PCI slots support a USB 2.0 card that says
> it work with a Mac.  I am running OS 9.1

No, the card will probably work, but only at USB 1.1 speed. MacOS9 does
not support USB 2.0.

> and I would like to use my HP photo printer with the 8600 and OS 9.2.  I
> would like to share the printer with my G4 running OS 10.3.5 as well.  It
> already has USB 2.0.

Sorry, printer sharing between OS9 and OSX is not possible. Only Classic
programs on your G4 can use the shared printer of the OS9 machine.

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Johan W. Elzenga            johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer      http://www.johanfoto.nl/

David C. - 19 Aug 2004 04:33 GMT
> No, the card will probably work, but only at USB 1.1 speed. MacOS9
> does not support USB 2.0.

More accurately, Apple's USB drivers don't support 2.0 high-speed.

There's nothing in the OS 9 architecture that would prevent a
hardware vendor from providing a system extension to make high speed
work.  (The fact that I don't think anyone has actually done this is
a separate point.)

> Sorry, printer sharing between OS9 and OSX is not possible. Only Classic
> programs on your G4 can use the shared printer of the OS9 machine.

Not necessarily.  You can print from OS 9 to OS X, if you know how to
set it up.

Turn on printer sharing on OS X.  This, in addition to other things,
starts up the cups-lpd daemon, which allows printing via the
UNIX-style lpr interface.  This daemon accepts jobs in the form of
PostScript or plain text data, converts it to your printer's format,
and prints them.

(The above is assuming you have OS X 10.3.  Older versions don't come
with cups for printing.  The generic Berkeley lpd daemon can also be
used, but it won't convert incoming documents from PostScript to your
printer's native format, forcing you to either have a compatible
driver on the remote computer or a PostScript printer.)

I just tested this out on my own system, printing via TCP/IP from a
Windows box, this way:
   - Add a "local" printer
   - When asked for a port, say you want TCP/IP printing
   - On the dialog provided, type in the IP address of the OS X box
   - Windows won't be able to auto-identify the printer.  That's
     fine.  Select "custom".  Select LPR-style printing and type in
     the printer's OS X device name as the queue name.  If you don't
     know what this is, look at the file /etc/printcap.  The first
     field will be the printer name.  In my case, it is DESKJET_840C
     Set the check box for LPR-style byte-counting.
   - When asked for a printer driver, pick something PostScript.  I
     selected the Apple Color LaserWriter driver
   - Print a test page - which worked fine.

The equivalent mechanism on classic MacOS is to use the "LaserWriter 8"
driver in the Chooser.  You should be able to configure it for an
LPR-type network printer.  Provide the IP address of your OS X box
and the printer name as your queue name.

If you set it up and something doesn't work, view the system log (use
/Applications/Unitieis/Console to view it).  Any messages produced by
cups-lpd or xinetd (the daemon that acts as a proxy for cups-lpd and
other things) will be in there.  Some of the messages I saw while
setting up my test (dates and hostnames stripped, and word-wrapped to
be easily read in an 80-column news posting) include:

   xinetd[347]: START: printer pid=996 from=192.168.1.7
   cups-lpd[996]: Connection from [hostname snipped] (192.168.1.7)
   cups-lpd[996]: Receive print job for DESKJET_840C
   cups-lpd[996]: Error while reading file - Result too large
   cups-lpd[996]: Closing connection

I was seeing these errors ("Result too large") and nothing was
printing.  Turning on LPR-style byte counting on Windows fixed this.

   xinetd[347]: START: printer pid=1010 from=192.168.1.7
   cups-lpd[1010]: Connection from [hostname snipped] (192.168.1.7)
   cups-lpd[1010]: Receive print job for DESKJET_840C
   cups-lpd[1010]: Unable to print file -
                   client-error-document-format-not-supported
   cups-lpd[1010]: Closing connection

I was seeing these errors (document format not supported) when I was
using the Windows DeskJet driver.  I didn't realize, at first, that
cups wants everything in PostScript format.

   xinetd[347]: START: printer pid=1022 from=192.168.1.7
   cups-lpd[1022]: Connection from [hostname snipped] (192.168.1.7)
   cups-lpd[1022]: Receive print job for DESKJET_840C
   cups-lpd[1022]: Print file - job ID = 326
   cups-lpd[1022]: Closing connection

This sequence of messages indicates a print job that was successfully
received and printed.  A few seconds after seeing this, the page
printed.

Good luck.  This isn't hard to setup, but it's a little hard to
explain it all in a news post.

-- David
Johan W. Elzenga - 19 Aug 2004 12:40 GMT
> > No, the card will probably work, but only at USB 1.1 speed. MacOS9
> > does not support USB 2.0.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> work.  (The fact that I don't think anyone has actually done this is
> a separate point.)

So what is exactly your point? Yes, it could be done in theory, no it
can't be done in practise.

> > Sorry, printer sharing between OS9 and OSX is not possible. Only Classic
> > programs on your G4 can use the shared printer of the OS9 machine.
>
> Not necessarily.  You can print from OS 9 to OS X, if you know how to
> set it up.

The OP doesn't want that. He wants to print from OSX to a OS9 shared
printer. At least that is how I read it.

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Johan W. Elzenga            johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer      http://www.johanfoto.nl/

David C. - 28 Aug 2004 21:17 GMT
>>> No, the card will probably work, but only at USB 1.1 speed. MacOS9
>>> does not support USB 2.0.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> So what is exactly your point? Yes, it could be done in theory, no
> it can't be done in practise.

There is a difference between "nobody has done it yet" and "it is
impossible".

>>> Sorry, printer sharing between OS9 and OSX is not possible. Only
>>> Classic programs on your G4 can use the shared printer of the OS9
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> The OP doesn't want that. He wants to print from OSX to a OS9 shared
> printer. At least that is how I read it.

But you didn't say that.  You said that there was no way for an OS9
system and an OSX system to share a printer.

If you don't say what you mean, don't get upset when others assume
you meant what you said.

-- David
Bruce  in Alaska - 25 Aug 2004 03:04 GMT
> Can a Power Macintosh 8600 with PCI slots support a USB 2.0 card that says
> it work with a Mac.  I am running OS 9.1
> and I would like to use my HP photo printer with the 8600 and OS 9.2.  I
> would like to share the printer with my G4 running OS 10.3.5 as well.  It
> already has USB 2.0.

Difinitive answer is:

1. 8600 does support PCI USB Cards with MacOS 8.6 or higher.
2. MacOS 9.2.x and lower only supports USB 1.1 with the Apple Driver.
     Apple has said that they will not support USB 2.0 in MacOS 9.x
3. 8600 can run MacOSX with ExpostFacto which does support USB 2.0
     via Apple Drivers.
4. USB 2.0 is supported on the 8600 if you are runnning MacOSX 10.1.x
     and above with the appropriate USB Drivers loaded.

Bruce in alaska      who found out the above, by trial and error, over
                      the last few years, and actually has it working.
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add a <2> before @

Dave - 25 Aug 2004 05:49 GMT
> > Can a Power Macintosh 8600 with PCI slots support a USB 2.0 card that says
> > it work with a Mac.  I am running OS 9.1
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Bruce in alaska      who found out the above, by trial and error, over
>                        the last few years, and actually has it working.

As for that. I had trouble finding a CD Burner for my PPC 7500, so I ended up
gettting a Firewire PCI Adapter, then got a LaCei 52x burnner. This burner
Kicks-a.s.!!.  five minutes to do what the iomega couldn't even do at 4x.
Say mabey 30 min + for 400 MB on the USB Iomega, and the LaCei is about 5 min.
for 600 MB.
...something to think about....DaveC...
John Orwen - 28 Aug 2004 02:20 GMT
Where do you find the Expostfacto program from ?  I did a search for
downloads by that name and found nothing or nowhere to download it from ?

> > Can a Power Macintosh 8600 with PCI slots support a USB 2.0 card that says
> > it work with a Mac.  I am running OS 9.1
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Bruce in alaska      who found out the above, by trial and error, over
>                        the last few years, and actually has it working.
Me - 28 Aug 2004 03:05 GMT
> Where do you find the Expostfacto program from ?  I did a search for
> downloads by that name and found nothing or nowhere to download it from ?
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> > Bruce in alaska      who found out the above, by trial and error, over
> >                        the last few years, and actually has it working.

I think that you should look around in sourceforge.com

Me
Dave Balderstone - 28 Aug 2004 04:37 GMT
> Where do you find the Expostfacto program from ?

Wrong Name.

<http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/11168> will get you
there.
Bob Ball - 31 Aug 2004 02:59 GMT
It's Xpostfacto, up to V3.0, developed by a guy at OtherWorldComputing.
Check this website: http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/ and among other
things it leads to a forum. I'm using it to run 10.3.5 on my PM8500 with
a Sonnet 400mhz Crescendo.

> > Where do you find the Expostfacto program from ?
>
> Wrong Name.
>
> <http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/11168> will get you
> there.

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Bob Ball
If you want to think positive thoughts, surround yourself with positive people.
If you want to email me, eliminate the negative.

 
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