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Mac Forum / Applications / Excel / December 2006



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More Excel Torture

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kevs - 25 Dec 2006 03:30 GMT
I've been through this before, it's so Excel, so unintuitive to deal with,
here it is again.

I have a password, let say:

10732801143251886353

See how it paste in here real nice?

Well in Excel, and only in Excel, when I paste it in a cell, any cell it it
looks like this instead
1.07328E+19

Why I have no idea, I can never explain this software, always baffles me.
thanks

OS 10.4.7
Office 2004
CyberTaz - 25 Dec 2006 04:58 GMT
Your cell formatting is set to General, which is the default. Any value -
type or pasted - more than 11 digits (99999999999) displays using scientific
notation... Always has & most spreadsheet apps do. If you format the cell as
Number it will display all the digits.

When pasting from other sources, rt-click & use Paste Special>Text if the
content isn't to be used for calculations (such as passwords & serial
numbers).

Happy Holidays

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

On 12/24/06 10:30 PM, in article C1B485D8.1ED11%studiok4485@hotmail.com,

> I've been through this before, it's so Excel, so unintuitive to deal with,
> here it is again.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> OS 10.4.7
> Office 2004
Jim Gordon MVP - 26 Dec 2006 02:15 GMT
Hi,

Excel works with numbers up to 15 significant digits for calculations.

If you prefer, you can tell excel to treat the number as text, instead, and
then excel won't use scientific notation to display the number.

CyberTaz explained how using cell formatting.

It may be easier to simply put a single quotation mark as the the first
character of the password as in '10732801143251886353.

If Excel sees a single quotation mark it treats whatever follows as text
instead of a number.

-Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

Quoting from "kevs" <studiok4485@hotmail.com>, in article
C1B485D8.1ED11%studiok4485@hotmail.com, on [DATE:

> I've been through this before, it's so Excel, so unintuitive to deal with,
> here it is again.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> OS 10.4.7
> Office 2004

Signature

Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/

kevs - 27 Dec 2006 01:09 GMT
On 12/25/06 6:15 PM, in article
C1B5F002.1487E%goldkey74@WarmerThanWarmMail.com, "Jim Gordon MVP"
<goldkey74@WarmerThanWarmMail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>> OS 10.4.7
>> Office 2004

Thanks guys, appreciate it. This is one of the more hair-raising things in
program for me.

OS 10.4.7
Office 2004
kevs - 27 Dec 2006 02:45 GMT
On 12/26/06 5:09 PM, in article C1B707AC.1EDC3%studiok4485@hotmail.com,

> On 12/25/06 6:15 PM, in article
> C1B5F002.1487E%goldkey74@WarmerThanWarmMail.com, "Jim Gordon MVP"
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> OS 10.4.7
> Office 2004

I spoke to soon, I tried both methods and neither worked. I selected cell
and chose text, is still pasted in to blank document as scientific, and I
put ' before number and still pasted in sceincetific

OS 10.4.7
Office 2004
kevs - 27 Dec 2006 02:51 GMT
On 12/26/06 6:45 PM, in article C1B71E65.1EDC5%studiok4485@hotmail.com,

> On 12/26/06 5:09 PM, in article C1B707AC.1EDC3%studiok4485@hotmail.com,
>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> OS 10.4.7
> Office 2004

Pretty weird, formatted cell to text here is what is in the cell:

basic code: 105051   encryption code:  10732801143251886353

If I select just the long encryption code (which I've been doing), it still
paste in scientific,
But if I select the whole cell (including stuff I don't need thank you)
Then the number paste in ok.

And this is regardless where it's formatted general or text, that does not
seem to be helping.

Don't people who make Excel know there are some folks who don't want this
behavior...scientific? Ugh

OS 10.4.7
Office 2004
CyberTaz - 27 Dec 2006 16:26 GMT
Interjections at the bottom:

On 12/26/06 9:51 PM, in article C1B71FAB.1EDC8%studiok4485@hotmail.com,

> On 12/26/06 6:45 PM, in article C1B71E65.1EDC5%studiok4485@hotmail.com,
>
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
>  basic code: 105051   encryption code:  10732801143251886353

If all that content is in *one* cell...

> If I select just the long encryption code (which I've been doing), it still
> paste in scientific,
> But if I select the whole cell (including stuff I don't need thank you)
> Then the number paste in ok.

Fundamental spreadsheet fact: Cell content is recognized as a VALUE *or* as
a TEXT STRING, & that is determined by what characters are used.

If you copy *just* the digits Excel sees what you Paste as a VALUE - that's
what this type of software is supposed to do. Including the ALPHA characters
when you copy prevents the pasted content from being treated as a VALUE.

Try to remember that a spreadsheet is a number-based calculation-oriented
environment which you are apparently trying to use as a database

> And this is regardless where it's formatted general or text, that does not
> seem to be helping.

Formatting doesn't change the content of a cell - it just determines how
that content displays.

> Don't people who make Excel know there are some folks who don't want this
> behavior...scientific? Ugh

Yes, they do - that's why you have the *option* of doing things differently.
But if you are going to "go against the grain" you have to let the program
know that is what you are doing.

As mentioned above, this is a value-based program which is what the
overwhelming number of users use it for, and most of them don't often deal
with values greater than 99 Billion, 999 Million, 999 Thousand, 999. If they
do, scientific notation is far more efficient for a variety of reasons &
display can be effectively controlled by FORMATTING when necessary.

You seem to think that just because you type or paste a string of more than
11 digits that Excel is automatically supposed to assume that it *must* be a
text string - but such behavior would be even more frustrating to the "other
97%" of Excel users who need (and expect) to have those 'numbers' treated as
values :-) I'm not sure what type of work you're actually using Excel for,
but perhaps you may want to consider using a database program rather than a
high-performance calculator.

> OS 10.4.7
> Office 2004

OK, back to the original issue - Let me try in a little more detail to
clarify:

Scenario A: If you are copying from a different source & pasting into Excel,
either of these two options should work;

1- Format the cell as Text using Format>Cells *before* you paste - changing
the format of the cell after pasting will *not* change how the value
displays, or

2- Paste *first*, then Format>Cells - NUMBER with zero decimals (not General
or Text)

Scenario B: If copying/cutting scientific notation from within an Excel file
follow the directions above.

Scenario C: If you are copying/cutting a long number which is fully
displayed from within an Excel file, Paste normally.

*Happy Holidays*

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
kevs - 28 Dec 2006 03:34 GMT
On 12/27/06 8:26 AM, in article C1B808F0.1C0DE%onlygeneraltaz1@com.cast.net,

> Interjections at the bottom:
>
[quoted text clipped - 139 lines]
> Bob Jones
> [MVP] Office:Mac

Cyber :
I got it!
I reformatted the cell the the long number, but did not format the cell
receiving. You need to reformat both.ugh! Thanks.

What are these stupid long numbers?

They are software serial number given to me by software makers.

Why are they so long? Don't ask me.  But I did notice strangely, that when
they are super long, but have dashes, this problem does not occur. I just
happen to have a long one without dashes.

OS 10.4.7
Office 2004
PhilD - 28 Dec 2006 08:43 GMT
> Why are they so long? Don't ask me.  But I did notice strangely, that when
> they are super long, but have dashes, this problem does not occur. I just
> happen to have a long one without dashes.

That's because the dashes make it text rather than just a big number.

May I suggest reading up on how to use Excel?  That way, you will not
find as many frustrations, as you will understand it better.  Of
course, you "expect" it to work as you want when you want, which is
reasonable, but Excel can do far more than you can imagine and *it*
doesn't know whether you want A or B (or C or D or...).

Do you drive a car?  You wouldn't just get in and say "take me to
work".  Nothing would happen.  You have to use a number of controls in
the correct way (accelerator, gears, two different brakes (hand and
foot), steering, and so on) to work, and to a certain extent you need
to know how and why these things work, and of course what they are for.

Take one example.  You wouldn't use the hand brake to perform an
emergency stop, but you *could* in principle use it to slow the car
from speed.  You *could* use engine resistances to slow down.  You
*could* use the pedal brake to slow down.  You *could* use a
combination of these for best effect.  You would understand the
limitations of each and use them appropriately.

Not a perfect analogy I know, but hopefully you can see similarities
with the software that seems to be causing you some distress.  There
are different ways of doing things.  Excel has to do *something*, and
unless you understand it and define the correct things it has to pick
its own choice (the "default" behaviour).

Even after apparently setting things up, you will still need to have an
input.  Using our driving analogy again, at every junction you would
have a chouce of which way to go, and you will need to guide your car
the correct way.  Similarly with Excel there could be times when you
will need to guide the software the way you want it to go.

I hope that this helps.

PhilD

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