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Mac Forum / Applications / Eudora / December 2004



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HTML in emails?

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AES/newspost - 02 Oct 2004 16:30 GMT
Two technical questions, from a *non*-techie type trying to get
a bit more educated:

1)  Does the basic smtp protocol envision or consider or set
any standards for including html in email messages?  Or does
it only consider transmission of ASCII characters, leaving it
entirely to the server and client to encode or decode or include
html coding in the characters that are sent?

2)  I've somehow acquired the impression that including html
in email messages is deprecated, or discouraged, or considered
undesirable by at least some computer types, who recommend
that emails contain only plain text, and that html capabilities
in email clients, if present, be turned off, partly on security
grounds, partly on grounds of "clutter", partly on grounds of
I don't know what else.  Is this a fair statement?

[Not trying to argue any of these points here; just trying to
get educated on what others think.  Thanks.]
Peter Ceresole - 02 Oct 2004 17:38 GMT
> 1)  Does the basic smtp protocol envision or consider or set
> any standards for including html in email messages?  Or does
> it only consider transmission of ASCII characters, leaving it
> entirely to the server and client to encode or decode or include
> html coding in the characters that are sent?

That's right. The smtp protocol doesn't care *what* you send.

> 2)  I've somehow acquired the impression that including html
> in email messages is deprecated, or discouraged, or considered
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> grounds, partly on grounds of "clutter", partly on grounds of
> I don't know what else.  Is this a fair statement?

Partly on grounds of taste too... Yup.
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Peter

Elmo P. Shagnasty - 02 Oct 2004 18:49 GMT
> 2)  I've somehow acquired the impression that including html
> in email messages is deprecated, or discouraged, or considered
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> grounds, partly on grounds of "clutter", partly on grounds of
> I don't know what else.  Is this a fair statement?

Yes.

HTML email came about when someone decided to integrate a mail client
into a web browser.  People by and large didn't know that email and web
browsing were separate things, and so they came to expect that their
email experience should be just like their web browsing experience.

Email was never meant to be anything but text only, and I have html
stuff turned off in Eudora.  I tend to ignore html-only emails.  Sure, I
can "open in browser," but I don't--because if you can't get your point
across to me in plain text, no amount of formatting and pretty pictures
will change anything.
Bill Cole - 04 Oct 2004 00:03 GMT
> Two technical questions,

Actually, it's a technical question and a social one.

> from a *non*-techie type trying to get
> a bit more educated:
>
> 1)  Does the basic smtp protocol envision or consider or set
> any standards for including html in email messages?

No, but I think maybe we have a terminology problem here... SMTP is
purely a transport protocol. It does not tightly define the data format
or content rules of email. See RFC2821 and RFC2822 for more details and
pointers to many of the other docs that have relevant information.

> Or does
> it only consider transmission of ASCII characters, leaving it
> entirely to the server and client to encode or decode or include
> html coding in the characters that are sent?

Note that HTML is an ASCII-based format. The things it might link to or
have marked up for inline inclusion can be binary files, but HTML itself
does not require special encoding of any sort. That's why HTML has a
MIME time of 'text/html' instead of 'application/html' or something
else. Including everything an HTML file references in email does require
encoding of things like graphics. Not a technical problem, since MIME is
a well-established standard set for handling things that are not plain
text.

SMTP specifically (as defined in RFC2821 and its ancestors) doesn't much
care, as long as the message content is limited to the 'mail-safe'
character set (actually a subset of ASCII)  and doesn't have the magic
terminating sequence (CRLF.CRLF) embedded. Many SMTP servers (probably
almost all at this point) don't really care about the character set, and
will either pass or forcibly encode 8-bit content.

> 2)  I've somehow acquired the impression that including html
> in email messages is deprecated, or discouraged, or considered
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> grounds, partly on grounds of "clutter", partly on grounds of
> I don't know what else.  Is this a fair statement?

Yes and no. It is true that many people do not like HTML in email.  I
think it is not fair to describe this only as a view of 'computer types'
as it seems to me that it is a view that is attributable more accurately
to people who have been using Internet email longer than there has been
widespread access to HTML-aware mailers. I also think there is a range
of views on how to deal with the problem or why it is a problem.

The strongest argument I ever hear is the courtesy one. Sending someone
mail they cannot read is rude. This extends to mail sent to discussion
mailing lists or articles posted to newsgroups rather starkly: the only
format that everyone can handle is plain text. Close behind that is the
practical one that no two HTML-capable mailers seem to be able to agree
with each other or with any W3C spec on what exactly HTML is. The
security concerns are pretty weak, as they are based in either one
vendor's horrible misdesigns or specific things that no HTML-capable
mailer should do and none (except the crap from Redmond) do by default.

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Now where did I hide that website...

Dave Singer - 06 Oct 2004 17:57 GMT
> The strongest argument I ever hear is the courtesy one. Sending someone
> mail they cannot read is rude. This extends to mail sent to discussion
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> vendor's horrible misdesigns or specific things that no HTML-capable
> mailer should do and none (except the crap from Redmond) do by default.

There is one security question that I think valid.  It's common for spam
to include image references using a URL that can confirm that they have
hit a valid email address.  As a result, many people (like myself) turn
off automatic fetching of images etc.  Unfortunately, quite a bit of
HTML email has information embedded in images (presumably because it
looks cute in a specific reader).
Kathy Morgan - 07 Oct 2004 04:29 GMT
> There is one security question that I think valid.  It's common for spam
> to include image references using a URL that can confirm that they have
> hit a valid email address.  As a result, many people (like myself) turn
> off automatic fetching of images etc.  Unfortunately, quite a bit of
> HTML email has information embedded in images (presumably because it
> looks cute in a specific reader).

With Eudora, you have then the best of both worlds.  Turn off
automatically downloading html graphics, then on an individual message
you can fetch the graphics just for that message (click on the broken
image link at the top of the message).

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Kathy - read reviews of other newsgroups in news:news.groups.reviews
help for new users at <http://www.aptalaska.net/~kmorgan/>
Good Net Keeping Seal of Approval at <http://www.gnksa.org/>

Bill Cole - 09 Oct 2004 21:04 GMT
> > The strongest argument I ever hear is the courtesy one. Sending someone
> > mail they cannot read is rude. This extends to mail sent to discussion
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> HTML email has information embedded in images (presumably because it
> looks cute in a specific reader).

Are you aware of any modern mailer that retrieves remote content by
default other than Outlook and OE? I know that Eudora switched its
defaults to not do so a matter of weeks after it first was released with
the capability...

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Now where did I hide that website...

ReindeR Rustema - 19 Dec 2004 17:42 GMT
> 2)  I've somehow acquired the impression that including html
> in email messages is deprecated, or discouraged, or considered
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> grounds, partly on grounds of "clutter", partly on grounds of
> I don't know what else.  Is this a fair statement?

What has not been mentioned in this threat is that HTML in e-mail is
difficult to render by an e-mailclient that is not designed to read
HTML. Those who have no objections to HTML in e-mail are usually the
ones who use an e-mailclient from the same brand as the browser. Certain
mailclients come in a pairs: Firefox-Thunderbird, Internet
Explorer-Outlook, Mail-Safari, Netscape Navigator-Messenger or whatever
it is called.

The mailclients that come alone either need the assistance of a browser
from another make, or they do a bad job in displaying the HTML (like
Eudora).

The risk of having a browser and mailclient work closely together is
that they integrate more and more over time. Which is dangerous I am
told. Personally I prefer to have different companies specialise in what
they do best, not two things in the same product.

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ReindeR

 
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