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Mac Forum / Applications / Eudora / June 2004Eudora HTML viewer problems OS-X
Is it me or am I just now noticing how badly Eudora (my e-mail program since the early 90s) displays HTML formatted mail. I've been trying to debug an HTML mail that one of my clients sends out regularly to help them get it to display better. I'm basing that on how I see the HTML formatted message in Eudora. But lo and behold, when I view the same message in Apple's Mail program, it's beautiful and exactly how the client expected the message to look. Eudora is the problem. Is there something I'm missing? Eudora 6.1.1 (paid), Mac OS-X 10.3.4 > Eudora is the problem. Is there something I'm missing? Eudora has never claimed to display HTML in any stylish way- just in a workable form. To see HTML properly displayed in Eudora, use File->Open in Browser. This policy is historical, but still very valid; based on the idea that HTML has no business in email, because it makes for grotesquely bloated message sizes and places additional strain on mail servers already groaning under the weight of (largely HTML) spam. That's the additional important reason for not using HTML for mail; it can contain all manner of security holes and nasties which plain text cannot.  SignaturePeter > To see HTML properly displayed in Eudora, use File->Open in Browser. Why does this screw up the character encoding? I receive a lot of mail with 8-bit characters and they are all destroyed when I use view in browser. SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > > To see HTML properly displayed in Eudora, use File->Open in Browser. > > Why does this screw up the character encoding? I receive a lot of mail > with 8-bit characters and they are all destroyed when I use view in > browser. You have to select the right encoding in your browser- under 'View->Character Encoding' in Mozilla. Usually under some such heading. SignaturePeter > You have to select the right encoding in your browser- under > 'View->Character Encoding' in Mozilla. Usually under some such heading. I know, but why can't Eudora handle this automatically? I believe/accuse Eudora for saving them in some other encoding than the encoding specified in the header of the html. SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > > You have to select the right encoding in your browser- under > > 'View->Character Encoding' in Mozilla. Usually under some such heading. > > I know, but why can't Eudora handle this automatically? I believe/accuse > Eudora for saving them in some other encoding than the encoding > specified in the header of the html. No; Eudora does its own 'adequate' rendering of HTML emails. But that's passed to the Browser has to be interpreted by the browser itself; there are many kinds of browser, not all the settings are the same, and Eudora couldn't really handle that part of the job itself. SignaturePeter > Eudora couldn't really handle that part of the job itself. I will examine this in more detail next time I receive a html mail. I suspect that if you receive a html mail with a correct specified encoding, e.g., iso 8859-1, when Eudora saves this message to open it in a browser it saves it in another encoding, e.g., MacRoman but let the html header that says 8859-1 remain unchanged = the browser can't possibly render the text correct. SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > I will examine this in more detail next time I receive a html mail. I > suspect that if you receive a html mail with a correct specified > encoding, e.g., iso 8859-1, when Eudora saves this message to open it in > a browser it saves it in another encoding, e.g., MacRoman but let the > html header that says 8859-1 remain unchanged = the browser can't > possibly render the text correct. Why should Eudora save a message in a new encoding to pass to the browser? I suspect that it may simply append a note to itself of the encoding it uses, but simply pass the message as is to the browser. SignaturePeter > Why should Eudora save a message in a new encoding to pass to the > browser? I suspect that it may simply append a note to itself of the > encoding it uses, but simply pass the message as is to the browser. I have examined what happens now: Eudora removes typically the following line <x-html><!x-stuff-for-pete base="" src="" id="0" charset="utf-8"> from the temporary file it saves, which means that encoding gets screwed up in the browser. SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? It'd be nice if Eudora gave us an option to view html messages in Eudora rather than handing off to the browser. I wouldn't have thought this would not be too difficult under 10.3 with the webcore stuff that is now available. Maybe a future version of Eudora will support WebCore for the correct rendering of html messages in Eudora. > I wouldn't have thought this would not be too difficult under 10.3 > with the webcore stuff that is now available. Can Carbon apps access WebCore/WebKit? SignatureJulian Y. Koh <mailto:kohster@northwestern.edu> Network Engineer <phone:847-467-5780> Telecommunications and Network Services Northwestern University PGP Public Key:<http://bunnytoaster.nsg.northwestern.edu/julian/pgppubkey.html> > Is it me or am I just now noticing how badly Eudora (my e-mail program > since the early 90s) displays HTML formatted mail. I've been trying to > debug an HTML mail that one of my clients sends out regularly to help > them get it to display better. I'm basing that on how I see the HTML > formatted message in Eudora. What Peter said and... if you are trying to make this work you are in for a lost battle IMHO. Also HTML mails are an annoyance to a lot of people. Instead I would suggest for your client to send out a simple *link* to an on-line version of the news letter - browser display is much more consistent. Less cost for the client + less headaches for you + less data sent across the network = everybody wins SignatureCheers Martin Martin and Peter. Thanks for adding zero to the technical question and instead cluttering the discussion with your philosophical theories. But since you brought philosophy into the discussion, we can extend your argument to include all types of transportation and communication media. I propose that we scale back all highway construction to two lane roads... I mean afterall the reason that inter-city roadways were created in the first place was to deliver mail from city to city. Now the roadways are just "cluttered up and bloated" by a bunch of commuters getting to work and tractor trailers delivering goods. When will this world ever learn that you can't take a simple thing like "post roads" and plain-text e-mail and expand them to do more then what they're intended for? Oh, and roads are also used by criminals who travel from one place to another. So we should put up roadblocks for all types of transportation that a criminal might use. Get real guys... stuff is made to evolve... If you (and e-mail) doesn't evolve you can join the rest of the extinct species who either couldn't (or in your cases - wouldn't) evolve. ~joe > Thanks for adding zero to the technical question and instead > cluttering the discussion with your philosophical theories. On the contrary. Your technical question was fully answered, with the only answer available. Use 'View in Browser'. If you didn't know that before, then you do now. You should be grateful. As for the philosophy, that was a free bonus. I'm sure Martin joins me in accepting your thanks for the extra enlightenment. SignaturePeter > As for the philosophy, that was a free bonus. I'm sure Martin joins me > in accepting your thanks for the extra enlightenment. LOL - anytime! :-) SignatureCheers Martin > But since you brought philosophy into the discussion, we can extend > your argument to include all types of transportation and > communication media. This is a very common logical fallacy called a "strawman argument". Since you obviously can't refute their arguments, you rephrase their argument to mean something else and then attempt to refute your bogus argument. If you wish to recast their replies, try this: Your client is complaining that they get cut every time they try to open a paint can with a chisel. You asked for help opening paint cans using chisels. The folks that know what they're talking about tell you that you shouldn't open paint cans with chisels and give you a number of better solutions. Also following your logic, this statement: > Get real guys... stuff is made to evolve... If you (and e-mail) > doesn't evolve you can join the rest of the extinct species who > either couldn't (or in your cases - wouldn't) evolve. Is totally hypocritical. According to your argument, right/wrong/better/worse is irrelevant, all that matters is what the masses want, and they have chosen Windows, while you're using a Mac. SignatureA: No. See: Help, I'm <http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html> being held <http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting> in a .sig Q: Should I include quotations after my reply? factory! > Thanks for adding zero to the technical question Actually, there was technical info, but you just didn't like the answers you were given. There are technical reasons whil HTML email is wrong and you were given the best remedy (include a link in the text email). You were also given the "Open in browser" option. Finally, I recently posted the first thing you need to check before complaining that any HTML engine isn't rendering the document as intended (i.e. don't bitch unless the HTML follows the standards). SignatureA: No. See: Help, I'm <http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html> being held <http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting> in a .sig Q: Should I include quotations after my reply? factory! > Also HTML mails are an annoyance to a lot of people. This is a big one for me. There's several businesses/organizations I don't deal with any more because they insist on sending out bloated HTML emails. SignatureA: No. See: Help, I'm <http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html> being held <http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting> in a .sig Q: Should I include quotations after my reply? factory! > Also HTML mails are an annoyance to a lot of people. Of course, html does not have to be used for complex linked documents. Any time you change a font (e.g., to monospace a table), add emphasis with color, underline, bold etc, or place an embedded (as opposed to attached) graphic, YOUR email is sent html formatted. > But lo and behold, when I view the same message in Apple's Mail > program, it's beautiful and exactly how the client expected the > message to look. Eudora is the problem. Is there something I'm > missing? Did you check the validity of the included HTML? It's not the responsibility of any HTML rendering engine to render invalid, non-standards compliant HTML as the author "expected". Good luck convincing them to stick to the standards, you'll stand a better chance convincing them that HTML email is wrong. SignatureA: No. See: Help, I'm <http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html> being held <http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting> in a .sig Q: Should I include quotations after my reply? factory! |
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