 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Mac Forum / Applications / Eudora / April 2004When will Eudora have decent undo?
I've hated Eudora's single undo for a while now, but now I'm really ticked. I just had the delete button accidentally pressed on my keyboard, removing a dozen or so archived messages from a mailbox. Into a Trash containing 3,408 messages. Now I have to go restore from my most recent backup, all because stupid freakin' Eudora won't undo more than one thing! C'mon, multiple undo is *standard* these days, why can't Eudora keep up with the curve?!  Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> > I've hated Eudora's single undo for a while now, but now I'm really > ticked. I just had the delete button accidentally pressed on my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > more than one thing! C'mon, multiple undo is *standard* these days, > why can't Eudora keep up with the curve?! Why on earth do you keep over 3000 messages in the Trash? So that you can retrieve a few of them now and then? Well, now's your chance! SignatureAlec McKenzie mckenzie@despammed.com Personally, I'd love to see more than one undo level just for typing. Changing words, deleting text, and cut/copy/paste should all be undoable to multiple levels, IMHO. I often end up wasting time re-typing something that I already typed, due to this lack. SignatureDan Wilga dwilga-MUNGE@mtholyoke.edu ** Remove the -MUNGE in my address to reply ** > Why on earth do you keep over 3000 messages in the Trash? So that you > can retrieve a few of them now and then? Well, now's your chance! I have 3777 mails in the Trash, the oldest form 1997. I also never ever deletes a mail, the content of my Eudora trash is mostly mail that I have begun writing but never sent. Why should I delete mail from the Trash if HD space is not an issue (3777 messages = 13 MB ≈ 2 MP3:s)? SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > Why should I delete mail from the Trash if HD space is not an issue > (3777 messages = 13 MB ≈ 2 MP3:s)? Wouldn't it be more sensible, if you want to keep it, to transfer it to another mailbox instead of the trash? (OK, I know hitting DELETE is simpler than that...) Or, as an alternative, every now and again, if disk space is no issue, simply duplicate the Trash file, rename in Trash01 or something, and then you can always open it as an OTHER mailbox if required. As others have said, you are really setting yourself up for problems if you don't back up in some way what you obviously don't want to lose. Rifty SignatureAcademic and Computing Help http://rifty.net > Wouldn't it be more sensible, if you want to keep it, to transfer it to > another mailbox instead of the trash? (OK, I know hitting DELETE is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > As others have said, you are really setting yourself up for problems if > you don't back up in some way what you obviously don't want to lose. Do you usually empy your physical Trash before it is full? The stuff I have in my Eudora trash is junk but I see no point in deleting it as long as it sits there and not is in my way. SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > Do you usually empy your physical Trash before it is full? The stuff I > have in my Eudora trash is junk but I see no point in deleting it as > long as it sits there and not is in my way. I have mine set to be emptied every time I close Eudora. That's why I send it to the Trash - to get rid of it permanently. Like forever. Anything I think I might have some remote chance of needing, I store in a file called "Trashem". I don't ever recall going there for anything, I have to say. But hey, to each his/her own! It works for you (more or less), so that's entirely your business. Cheers, Rifty SignatureAcademic and Computing Help http://rifty.net [...] > Do you usually empy your physical Trash before it is full? Do you usually fish stuff out of your physical trash? ;) SignatureSander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/> Mac user: "Macs only have 40 viruses, tops!" PC user: "SEE! Not even the virus writers support Macs!" > > Do you usually empy your physical Trash before it is full? > > Do you usually fish stuff out of your physical trash? ;) No:-) And I never fish stuff from Eudora Trash either (I was not the OP in this thread). SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? >Do you usually empy your physical Trash before it is full? It's regularly emptied- every week- so it always reaches a certain, perfectly bearable level and then I empty it. But the analogy simply doesn't hold. The potential size of the Eudora Trash is equivalent to several tons of the physical stuff. It would make no sense at all to accumulate that much at home... >The stuff I >have in my Eudora trash is junk but I see no point in deleting it as >long as it sits there and not is in my way. Simply; nothing is totally predictable. From time to time something will go wrong, as it did in the original case reported in this thread. At that moment, having a reasonably tightly controlled quantity of stuff in the trash pays off. Given that it's no hardship whatsoever to empty it, I'm still mystified by users who hoard their rubbish on the off chance that they might possibly, one day, just possibly want to get at it, but then don't organise it in a way that makes it controllable, and that's provided free by the writers of the program. Still, it's your funeral. SignaturePeter > >The stuff I > >have in my Eudora trash is junk but I see no point in deleting it as [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > moment, having a reasonably tightly controlled quantity of stuff in the > trash pays off. This is absolutely ridiculous. There's absolutely no logic in that argument. Significantly more can go wrong by deleting trash all the time than by *not* deleting trash. You're making up a nonsense argument because you can't think of a legitimate reason to convince me your way is right for all users in all cases. I did not start this thread to debate the validity of my trash-handling scheme. I started it because of problems with Eudora's undo capabilities, which are woefully inadequate in a time when multiple undo and redo is standard. I wonder if there is an official channel through which such things can be reported to Qualcomm? If you want to debate the "correctness" of keeping trash in the trash mailbox, please do it on another thread. Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> >This is absolutely ridiculous. There's absolutely no logic in that >argument. Significantly more can go wrong by deleting trash all the >time than by *not* deleting trash. Like what? But there you are. I find your way of doing things equally ridiculous. Fortunately it doesn't matter. SignaturePeter > >This is absolutely ridiculous. There's absolutely no logic in that > >argument. Significantly more can go wrong by deleting trash all the > >time than by *not* deleting trash. > > Like what? Like permanently deleting something that you discover a new need for later, or something that you didn't realize you had thrown in the trash. You can't undo that, no matter how Eudora's undo works. There is significantly more risk in losing something you wish you had saved than in keeping stuff that you won't ever need again. Of course, regular backups can help, but which would you rather do -- search your trash mailbox for something, or go back through past backups to find the right thing to restore? > I find your way of doing things equally ridiculous. I find your attitude closed-minded, but I don't particularly care what you think. Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> >> I find your way of doing things equally ridiculous. > >I find your attitude closed-minded Eh? All I am advocating is a minimum of organisation early on to avoid the mess you got into later. >but I don't particularly care what you think. Which is fine. SignaturePeter > >> I find your way of doing things equally ridiculous. > > > >I find your attitude closed-minded > > Eh? All I am advocating is a minimum of organisation early on to avoid the > mess you got into later. First, the "mess I got into" was a once in a blue moon sort of thing. Not likely to happen often. Also, it was easily fixed by restoring from a recent backup. (It should, however, have been easier, with multiple undo.) Second, my trash *is* organized. It's color-coded according to the source of the message and sorted by those codes, then by date. I don't typically have trouble finding anything in there when I want it. Third, it's not your business to be advocating anything in this matter. I am doing things in a different way than you are, and not in a particularly strange way, either. Lots of other people do what I'm doing. Hell, many people extend this same idea to their Finder trash! So don't bother trying to tell me my way is wrong. Fourth, this is all completely unrelated to the topic of Eudora's undo support. Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> [...] > Third, it's not your business to be advocating anything in this matter. When you post in public it's anybody's business to respond and your business to accept that. That's what public *is*. You're free to ignore the responses you don't like, but by attacking people who give you advice that you happen to not like, and even to someone who's been nothing but helpful here for ages, you're only digging a deep hole for yourself. [...] > So don't bother trying to tell me my way is wrong. I sure hope he won't. If you can't deal with it, don't post in public. SignatureSander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/> Mac user: "Macs only have 40 viruses, tops!" PC user: "SEE! Not even the virus writers support Macs!" > You're free to ignore > the responses you don't like, but by attacking people who give you > advice that you happen to not like, and even to someone who's been > nothing but helpful here for ages, you're only digging a deep hole for > yourself. 'Scuse me? Who attacked who here? I post, after a moment of intense frustration, about inadequacies with Eudora's undo, and immediately everyone starts badgering *me* about the way I manage my freakin' trash! And then start arguing with me when I say that, yes, that is indeed something I meant to do. It's ludicrous, and it's rude. Yes, speech is free and all that jazz, but it works both ways. If you don't like my responses, you can stay out of it. You can't tell me to shut up because I posted in public and have no right to complain about responses. You, by the same argument, have to business complaining about *my* responses. Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> >Third, it's not your business to be advocating anything in this matter. This is Usenet. You post, you get replies. Live with it. SignaturePeter > Hell, many people extend this same idea to their Finder trash! I would have liked to see this under pre-OS X. Imagine, you have 100 gazillion files in the trash, that you might need at some stage. You insert a floppy or Zip disk,and realise you need to make some space on it in order to copy stuff. So you take the files from the removable and put them into the trash. Obviously you need to empty it to make space...so, up goes to mouse to the Special menu and...aaaaaarrgghhhh! ;-) Paolo > I wonder if there is an official channel through which such things can be > reported to Qualcomm? Yes it is. Look under the Help-menu. SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > Significantly more can go wrong by deleting trash all the > time Could you expand on this? I cannot think of much, really, unless you put into the Trash stuff that you want to keep, which sort of contraddicts the idea of a trash. Paolo > Could you expand on this? I cannot think of much, really, unless you > put into the Trash stuff that you want to keep, which sort of > contraddicts the idea of a trash. Doing something actively is, I think, most of the time more troublecausing than just let every remain as is. This probably applies to emptying the Eudora Trash as well. SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? >Doing something actively is, I think, most of the time more >troublecausing than just let every remain as is. This probably applies >to emptying the Eudora Trash as well. Errrr.... No As a principle, that's deeply flawed in general, and in keeping things tidy, even more so. SignaturePeter > Errrr.... No > > As a principle, that's deeply flawed in general, and in keeping things > tidy, even more so. Yes. Everytime you run some code there is a small risk you find a bug. You can also get problems with your hardware (but on the other hand, it is possible that having a big trash causes more stress on the HW than frequent emptying of it). SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? >but on the other hand, it >is possible that having a big trash causes more stress on the HW than >frequent emptying of it And the software. Yes. I think you hit the spot there... Especially as I believe that Trash is one of the mailboxes that's loaded when you start up- although I may be wrong about that. SignaturePeter > >but on the other hand, it > >is possible that having a big trash causes more stress on the HW than [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Especially as I believe that Trash is one of the mailboxes that's loaded > when you start up- although I may be wrong about that. Since each individual Eudora mailbox is a separate file, I'd rather proliferate mailboxes than enlarge files. If I were keeping a lot of stuff that I *might* want, I'd create an Archive mailbox and then put that mailbox on the Eudora toolbar. Then, all you have to do is drag a message you want to save onto the Archive icon on the toolbar. You can do this in two ways. From the mailbox list, highlight the message, then drag. If the message is open, there will be a little envelope in the title bar. Drag that to the Archive mailbox on the toolbar. (And, of course, you'll periodically back up this Archive mailbox...) The point here is that Trash is defined to have special properties that may conflict with using it as an archive. No matter how much you *want* it not to have those properties, it's not going to happen. SignatureAF > Then, all you have to do is drag a > message you want to save onto the Archive icon on the toolbar. Obviously, you don't manage the same volume of messages that I do. I sometimes get several hundred messages per day, and always at least 100. I have to scan many of these pretty quickly, decide which ones are of no interest, which ones I want to save for later, which I want to keep in an archive, which I want to reply to now, etc. Most of them get deleted. I'm not going to slow down my workflow by dragging each message somewhere, instead of just hitting <delete>. I'm also not going to go back later and figure out which messages I wanted to delete so I can select and drag the whole lot at once. However, now and then I'll need something from one of the messages I deleted. When I do, it's a quick matter to search the trash and find the one I want. > The point here is that Trash is defined to have special properties that > may conflict with using it as an archive. Not really. It's trivial to prevent it from being emptied. > No matter how much you *want* > it not to have those properties, it's not going to happen. Really. I guess my computer exists in an alternate reality, then. Cool. Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> > > Significantly more can go wrong by deleting trash all the > > time > > Could you expand on this? I cannot think of much, really, unless you > put into the Trash stuff that you want to keep, which sort of > contraddicts the idea of a trash. You may not want to keep it *now*, but you may decide you want it back later. If there were a mailbox that I could put things in with a single, quick keypress (like delete or cmd-D), then I suppose I could transfer messages there and then move them to the trash when they're older than X days. But really, what's the difference between that and using the trash mailbox for the same purpose, only permanently deleting messages older than X days every now and then? Not much. Personally, I think that David's idea that "the more often you run program code, the more likely you'll find a bug" is ridiculous. Although I hate to cut down the argument of someone supporting my work process, the "bug fear" idea is not a decent justification. If you avoid doing tasks on your computer because you are paralyzed with fear that you might run into a bug, then you might as well go back to using pen and paper. Do what needs doing how it makes sense to you. If that means emptying your trash every day, then fine, I'm not going to try to convince you my way is right. Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> > Personally, I think that David's idea that "the more often you run > program code, the more likely you'll find a bug" is ridiculous. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > means emptying your trash every day, then fine, I'm not going to try to > convince you my way is right. I am not that worried to find new bugs, however I think everyone has experienced applications that 'unexpectedly quits', even when they are idling in the background. I hate it when it happens my web browser with maybe ten tabs open. Anyway, this is going OT now. SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > If there were a mailbox that I could put things in with a single, quick > keypress (like delete or cmd-D), then I suppose I could transfer > messages there I can understand your point here, because it is indeed easier to transfer a message into the Trash with a single shortcut. But why not create an archive folder in the toolbar as described by someone else here, and assign to it the corresponding FKey? This way all you need to do to put them in the archive is press the FKey. Simple and easy. Paolo > > Significantly more can go wrong by deleting trash all the > > time > > Could you expand on this? I cannot think of much, really, unless you > put into the Trash stuff that you want to keep, which sort of > contraddicts the idea of a trash. Ah, but I find that happens to me all the time--not through my deliberate effort, but because of carelessness with my filters. Most of the non-trash items that get filtered to the Trash are low priority, much of it junk that I don't care about, but it is from people I do care about. It makes sense to me to let Eudora filter it to the Trash, and to be slow in getting around to reading it, but I also wouldn't want Trash to just automatically be deleted on a frequent basis. For me, it works better to just periodically sort through the trash and delete items individually when I'm sure I'll never again want them. Of course, this results in much wasted space, which can cause problems, so I fairly regularly compact all mailboxes. SignatureKathy >Ah, but I find that happens to me all the time--not through my >deliberate effort, but because of carelessness with my filters. Same here. But I go through the trash items immediately to make sure there's nothing there I really want. This is very easy *provided that there's not too much stuff in the trash*. Which there isn't, because I empty it frequently. Catch-23. SignaturePeter > I go through the trash items immediately to make sure there's nothing > there I really want. This is very easy *provided that there's not too much > stuff in the trash*. Which there isn't, because I empty it frequently. Ha! Clearly you are better organized and more disciplined than I am. I keep planning to reform, but... :-) SignatureKathy > Why on earth do you keep over 3000 messages in the Trash? I haven't done much tinkering with the Junk mail or other filter settings so it seems that after 30 days the Junked mail goes to the Trash by default. So my Trash is sometimes quite full until I manually empty it. I empty is manually because sometimes there may be real mail that needs to be unjunked. SignatureMatti Haveri <mattiDOThaveriATsjokiDOTutaeiroskaaDOTfi> remove ei roskaa >I just had the delete button accidentally pressed on my >keyboard, removing a dozen or so archived messages from a mailbox. >Into a Trash containing 3,408 messages. *How* many? Well, it's your choice, but it seems a strange one to me- and a recipe for exactly what you've done. Do say that it was a once in a lifetime oddity, and that normally you keep your trash empty... And not a repository for stuff about which you can't make up your mind. My home for that is called 'Temp'. It seems like a better way. SignaturePeter > >I just had the delete button accidentally pressed on my > >keyboard, removing a dozen or so archived messages from a mailbox. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Well, it's your choice, but it seems a strange one to me- and a recipe for > exactly what you've done. It's not often that I need to retrieve messages whose content I don't remember from the Trash. > Do say that it was a once in a lifetime oddity, and that normally you keep > your trash empty... Nope, it's never empty. > And not a repository for stuff about which you can't > make up your mind. My home for that is called 'Temp'. It seems like a > better way. Nope, that's not it either. I like to keep a reasonable amount of past e-mail in my Trash so that I can refer back to it when needed. I've deleted stuff once too often and then discovered later that I needed it. I prefer to go through the Trash periodically and clean out stuff older than a certain date. (So it doesn't pile up; I've only got 6 months of old e-mail, plus about a week from a particularly busy mailing list.) I only wish Eudora could do this for me automatically! In any case, how many messages I've got in the Trash is fairly irrelevant to the point I was trying to make, which is that Eudora needs multiple undos. This is yet another situation where Eudora is mired in the past. Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> >Nope, that's not it either. I like to keep a reasonable amount of past >e-mail in my Trash so that I can refer back to it when needed. I've >deleted stuff once too often and then discovered later that I needed >it. Well that's one way of doing it... Wouldn't it be better to keep the stuff in discrete mailboxes by person or by subject? It's then a child's play to delete by date from time to time... Anyway, that's your business. But my way, I don't seem to need multiple undeletes. Sure, they might be nice, but I never need them. SignaturePeter > I've hated Eudora's single undo for a while now, but now I'm really > ticked. I just had the delete button accidentally pressed on my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > more than one thing! C'mon, multiple undo is *standard* these days, > why can't Eudora keep up with the curve?! If you avoid sorting your mailboxes newly added mail always arrives at the end/bottom of a mailbox. Avoid sorting by first sorting on date and then click again on the date column. Notice that after this click, no column is marked. Now all mail will be sorted in the order they arrive to this mailbox. SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.