Delete mail from POP server in Mail?

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Anders Eklöf - 25 Jun 2008 20:11 GMT

Subject says it: is there away to force Mail to mark a mail for deletion
*on the server* the same way I can do in Eudora?
That is, without wiping it completely from the local mailbox.

This is the way I handle mail marked [**SPAM**] at work.
My filter takes 3 actions: Junk, mark as read, and delete from server.
Very efficient - I can salvage false positives, andI can check my mail
from home without getting all the spam there too.

I also regularly mark "real" messages for deletion when I don't want to
read them again at home.

In the process of switching from Eudora to Mail, this is my main issue
with Mail - It seems this line of action is impossible. Mail 3.0 Help
on Apple's support web says:

"With a POP account, incoming messages are stored on the ISP's mail
server and are downloaded to your computer when you access your account.
The messages remain on the server until you delete them. Your mailboxes
and messages are available only from one computer."

While this may be partly true for Mail, at least two statements are in
error in the general case - and they are contradictory:

- The messages remain on the server until you delete them.
Not true - Eudora, Netscape, OE and other POP clients can thell the POP
server to delete messages while keeping them locally.

- Your mailboxes and messages are available only from one computer.

Now that can only be true *if the messages are deleted from the server*.
So it definitely cant be true for Mail.

Anything I have missed?

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Király - 25 Jun 2008 20:27 GMT

In comp.sys.mac.apps Anders Eklöf <andekl_no@saaf_spam.se> wrote:

> Subject says it: is there away to force Mail to mark a mail for deletion
> *on the server* the same way I can do in Eudora?
> That is, without wiping it completely from the local mailbox.

Go to Mail -> Preferences -> Accounts -> select account -> Advanced.
There's a check box and a drop-down menu to auto-delete messages on the
server, and also a button to delete them all.

AFAIK there isn't a way to do this on a per-message basis, other than
selecting "delete from server when moving from inbox" and them moving
your messages from the inbox to another folder.

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K.

Lang may your lum reek.

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Anders Eklöf - 26 Jun 2008 22:40 GMT

> In comp.sys.mac.apps Anders Eklöf <andekl_no@saaf_spam.se> wrote:
> > Subject says it: is there away to force Mail to mark a mail for deletion
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> There's a check box and a drop-down menu to auto-delete messages on the
> server, and also a button to delete them all.

I don't want to delete them all - just the ones I have marked for
deletion - through filter rules or otherwise. I don't see how to mark
them properly.

> AFAIK there isn't a way to do this on a per-message basis, other than
> selecting "delete from server when moving from inbox" and them moving
> your messages from the inbox to another folder.

OK I'll try that - and hope it works for the spam, too...

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I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines
to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour

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Calum - 27 Jun 2008 11:14 GMT

> AFAIK there isn't a way to do this on a per-message basis, other than
> selecting "delete from server when moving from inbox" and them moving
> your messages from the inbox to another folder.

Get Account Info (Cmd-I) will give you a list of all emails on the POP
server, from which you can select and delete mails individually.

There's no way to correlate this list with any flagging/marking you may
have done in your mail folders, though. The POP specification doesn't
really allow for that sort of thing IIRC, so Eudora is probably bending
the rules a little.

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Slipface - 27 Jun 2008 15:24 GMT

> There's no way to correlate this list with any flagging/marking you may
> have done in your mail folders, though. The POP specification doesn't
> really allow for that sort of thing IIRC, so Eudora is probably bending
> the rules a little.

This is sad to see. As a long-time Eudora user, I've been tempted to
switch to Mail for a couple years as it would be better integrated with
iCal, Address Book, etc. But I use Eudora's selective
delete-from-server feature *constantly* to do just like the OP said, to
control which messages I get on my other computer later that day.

It's such a useful function I can't imagine Eudora being the only app
to support it. I also think I'll stick with Eudora now... Hopefully
the new open-source versions are as good.

_d

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Christian - 27 Jun 2008 15:30 GMT

> It's such a useful function I can't imagine Eudora being the only app
> to support it. I also think I'll stick with Eudora now... Hopefully
> the new open-source versions are as good.

The new "open-source versions" have nothing in common with the
original Eudora, they are simply Thunderbird with somethin on top that
makes it look like old Eudora.

Much more promising is "Odysseus", a complete re-work that should be a
replacement for Eudora. Look at the page of it's creators, Infinity Data
Systems, at <http://www.infinitydatasystems.com/>.

Christian

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Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)
Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org

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Howard Brazee - 27 Jun 2008 15:38 GMT

>This is sad to see. As a long-time Eudora user, I've been tempted to
>switch to Mail for a couple years as it would be better integrated with
>iCal, Address Book, etc. But I use Eudora's selective
>delete-from-server feature *constantly* to do just like the OP said, to
>control which messages I get on my other computer later that day.

At work, on my Windows machine, I run MailWasher Pro using my home
e-mail. I have Thunderbird set up to leave my e-mail on the server
with that account. (My work account is on Outlook).

Before I head to work, I turn off Mail, and when I get home, I turn it
on again.

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Calum - 27 Jun 2008 15:49 GMT

>> This is sad to see. As a long-time Eudora user, I've been tempted to
>> switch to Mail for a couple years as it would be better integrated with
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> e-mail. I have Thunderbird set up to leave my e-mail on the server
> with that account. (My work account is on Outlook).

Really, though, that's what IMAP was invented for.

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Howard Brazee - 27 Jun 2008 16:27 GMT

>> At work, on my Windows machine, I run MailWasher Pro using my home
>> e-mail. I have Thunderbird set up to leave my e-mail on the server
>> with that account. (My work account is on Outlook).
>
>Really, though, that's what IMAP was invented for.

Too bad there are so many POP3 accounts. But vendors don't seem to
believe they would benefit by switching. (Think of the costs
involved in talking existing non-techie customers through changing
their configuration).

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Anders Eklöf - 28 Jun 2008 12:40 GMT

> >> At work, on my Windows machine, I run MailWasher Pro using my home
> >> e-mail. I have Thunderbird set up to leave my e-mail on the server
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> involved in talking existing non-techie customers through changing
> their configuration).

With IMAP, the demand on disk space increases too, right?

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I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines
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Tim Streater - 27 Jun 2008 16:24 GMT

> > There's no way to correlate this list with any flagging/marking you may
> > have done in your mail folders, though. The POP specification doesn't
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> delete-from-server feature *constantly* to do just like the OP said, to
> control which messages I get on my other computer later that day.

This is a useful feature.

> It's such a useful function I can't imagine Eudora being the only app
> to support it. I also think I'll stick with Eudora now... Hopefully
> the new open-source versions are as good.

There is only one "open-source" version, Eudora 8 which is really just
tbird with some mods. Most of Eudora is not there.

Odysseus is not open source and you will have to pay for it, just like
you did for Eudora.

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John H Meyers - 27 Jun 2008 22:09 GMT

> Get Account Info (Cmd-I) will give you a list of all emails on the
> POP server, from which you can select and delete mails individually.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> The POP specification doesn't really allow for that sort of thing IIRC,
> so Eudora is probably bending the rules a little.

Not at all; POP protocol allows any client to choose to selectively issue
RETR(ieve) and/or DELE(te) commands for any particular messages
that are currently still on the server, and the UIDL (list unique IDs)
command demands from the server a complete list of all messages
still on the server, which any client normally does first;
this is all you need from the server
to implement everything that Eudora does,
if you are clever enough to make full use of it.

Eudora is simply sophisticated and thorough enough
to keep track of the current "server status"
for all messages in all mailboxes,
and to allow you to specify any combination
of "fetch" and/or "delete"
for any of them which remain on the server
(plus such optional extras as
"delete from server when emptied from Trash"),
which goes well beyond what most other (lazy) clients
elect to provide to the user.

--

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Anders Eklöf - 28 Jun 2008 12:40 GMT

> > AFAIK there isn't a way to do this on a per-message basis, other than
> > selecting "delete from server when moving from inbox" and them moving
> > your messages from the inbox to another folder.
>
> Get Account Info (Cmd-I) will give you a list of all emails on the POP
> server, from which you can select and delete mails individually.

Wow, that comes close. But actually, things are not as bad as they first
seemed: "Erase copy from server when moved from inbox" (in the advanced
POP settings) does more ore less what I want. Since I regularly sort my
mail in different mailboxes anyway the effect should be the same.

The only drawback is when false positives end up in the junk box and get
deleted from the server, But that happens in Eudora too (at least the
way I have configured my filters).

Thanks for your input.

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John H Meyers - 27 Jun 2008 21:53 GMT

> - The messages remain on the server until you delete them.

> Not true - Eudora, Netscape, OE and other POP clients can tell the POP
> server to delete messages while keeping them locally.

It's true if "you" means your computer as a whole,
or perhaps Mac Mail's default setting is that way;
that is, the POP protocol consists entirely of
client-side commands, controlling everything the server does,
so only if you either specifically _tell_ or _let_
your email client issue the DELE(te) commands to the server
will the server actually delete the messages.

Most clients issue DELE(te) by default,
but not if a "leave mail on server" setting is activated,
while a few default the opposite way, and don't delete
unless a "delete mail from server" setting is activated;
in the end, however, the user can make the setting either way.

> - Your mailboxes and messages are available only from one computer.
>
> Now that can only be true *if the messages are deleted from the server*.
> So it definitely cant be true for Mail.

The more numerous clients which default to deleting after download
do end up acting as described by default; however, as mentioned above,
the user can make the setting either way on virtually any client.

--

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Mac Forum / Applications / Eudora / June 2008

Delete mail from POP server in Mail?