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Mac Forum / Applications / Eudora / June 2007Major drawback of Thunderbird
Although I switched to Thunderbird some time ago, I remain very unhappy about one aspect and thought about switching back to Eudora, before the curtain closed (penelope). The problem is that Thunderbird maintains attachments in an email message, rather than as a separate file. The reason that this is a problem relates to archiving email history. One often receives attachments, sometimes in multiple different emails, and I often receive large attachments as well as junk (junk, spam, copies of various things). With Thunderbird, the email archive becomes enormous very quickly. Much more so (by orders of magnitude) than Eudora. With Eudora, one could delete unnecessary and/or redundant attachments in the attachments folder/director and save the email history separately, or in addition to the folder with attachment history. I know, I know, about the mbox standard and Unix etc. I wish everybody, especially applications software companies released software for Unix/Linux etc. But that has not happened and meanwhile one has to go with the flow to get work done. By way of background have been on, and even written software on Unix/ Linux, Mac, Widows (xp and other gatesian crud), etc. etc. Even I agree with some of the rants, they are old news and have no practical effect. I strongly favor software that is cross-platform--- I avoid doing work with software that will result in dead work/data, if and when the software dies. Most of the time such software *can* be avoided, but not always. Anyway, back to the point- The point many users like myself keep email for various reasons, and that the attachments are not in the same league as messages-- especially large attachments and attachments that are avalable apart from messages (e.g. photos, movies, web page copies, and the list goes on and on). So at the least Thunderbird should have an option for keeping or separating the attachments from messages. Eudora did that from the get go. Eudora is light years better from this point of view. If I am missing something- please don't hestitate to let me know and/ or show me how. regards, dan f. > Although I switched to Thunderbird some time ago, I remain very > unhappy about one aspect and thought about switching back to Eudora, > before the curtain closed (penelope). > > The problem is that Thunderbird maintains attachments in an email > message, rather than as a separate file. [...] > So at the least Thunderbird should have an option for keeping or > separating the attachments from messages. Eudora did that from the > get go. Eudora is light years better from this point of view. > > If I am missing something- please don't hestitate to let me know and/ > or show me how. As far as I know, separating attachments from the rest of the email message is one of the most requested features for Penelope, and the developers plan on implementing it. Roberta  SignatureRoberta Millstein usenet@spamaway.rlm.net Remove "spamaway" to reply -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > In article <1182542723.470016.68...@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com EXCELLENT! That would be outstanding, and same for Thunderbird. Please feel free, (nay, please DO) to share these sentiments with the Thunderbird developer/support people. Thanks for your respond. dan f. > > As far as I know, separating attachments from the rest of the email > > message is one of the most requested features for Penelope, and the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks for your respond. Sure... here are some Penelope links, in case you don't have them: <http://wiki.mozilla.org/Penelope> (main Penelope page) <http://wiki.mozilla.org/Talk:Penelope> (Penelope "Talk" page) <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_des c_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Penelope> (list of bugs and features to be worked on -- anyone can vote on what they'd most like to see fixed/added) Roberta SignatureRoberta Millstein usenet@spamaway.rlm.net Remove "spamaway" to reply -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com [cross-posted to both Mac and Windows Eudora groups] > Although I switched to Thunderbird some time ago, > I remain very unhappy about one aspect > and thought about switching back to Eudora, > before the curtain closed (Penelope). As long as Eudora continues to work in one's OS, the curtain is never closed :) > The problem is that Thunderbird maintains attachments > in an email message, rather than as a separate file. It does initially, as do most clients other than Eudora; however, is there no equivalent in TB for Mac to the Windows procedure of just right-clicking on any TB attachment icon, to see options to externally save and/or delete attachments from messages? > The reason that this is a problem relates to archiving email history. > One often receives attachments, sometimes in multiple different > emails, and I often receive large attachments as well as junk (junk, > spam, copies of various things). With Thunderbird, the email archive > becomes enormous very quickly. Much more so (by orders of magnitude) > than Eudora. > With Eudora, one could delete unnecessary and/or redundant attachments > in the attachments folder/director and save the email history > separately, or in addition to the folder with attachment history. I have always preferred Eudora's automatic separation upon downloading, but even that style of operation has some drawbacks, in that the arrival of subsequent attachments having an identical name must be resolved. Eudora does this by arbitrarily changing the sender's original file name (appending digits, etc.) -- this can actually cause some complications, such as when it's intended by the sender that a re-sent file is a replacement for the original, entirely superseding it, or when the file must have the exact given name to be used in some subsequent procedure. A more subtle conflict occurs when the recipient deletes an original file, then the sender sends another of the same name -- in my (Windows) version, this will accidentally associate the second sent attachment with the first sent message, which again may lead to some mistake or confusion. Problems also occur when trying to merge Eudora data folders, because attachment names may similarly be in conflict, and it may not be possible to merge attachment folders without renaming some files, which dissociates them from their original messages -- the very thing which keeping attachments inside the original messages guarantees never to happen. At any rate, I hope that you can easily separate (or delete) attachments from messages in TB, as can be done in the Windows version; it's just not automatic, as it is with Eudora. However, the following "extension" claims to automate the separation of attachments from TB messages, and might be what you're looking for: "Attachment Extractor" [by eviljeff] http://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/556 http://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/user/631 http://www.eviljeff.com/ With TB v2 now adding many features that Eudora's long had, I guess it might be luring more faithful Eudora fans away, although I'm certainly not contemplating separation or divorce in any foreseeable future for myself :) -- Thanks for the thoughtful reply.:-)) (remarks below) > [cross-posted to both Mac and Windows Eudora groups] > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > associate the second sent attachment with the first sent message, > which again may lead to some mistake or confusion. Although that is arguable a "feature" since it allows change tracking the error in case there is ever a need to go back. > Problems also occur when trying to merge Eudora data folders, > because attachment names may similarly be in conflict, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > keeping attachments inside the original messages > guarantees never to happen. This is true and a good point for adding an option so you could have your cake or eat it too. Basically what you are reminding us of is the benefits of retaining a "file history" where desired, as in change tracking. Good point. > At any rate, I hope that you can easily separate > (or delete) attachments from messages in TB, > as can be done in the Windows version; > it's just not automatic, as it is with Eudora. I'm mainly using Windows these days. I posted to this group b/c I found the thread when greping to see what was going on with eudora, and too simple minded to worry about Mac vs. PC rant. Mostly us PC because of the economics gap, plus compatibility for "doing work." My old 8500 is mothballs, downstairs in case I need something old that MacDrive won't grok. OSX in vmware is too slow to be useful. > However, the following "extension" claims to automate > the separation of attachments from TB messages, > and might be what you're looking for: > > "Attachment Extractor" [by eviljeff]http://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/556http://addons.mozilla.org/e n-US/thunderbird/user/631http://www.eviljeff.com/ Nice find, Thanks! I hadn't been watching Thunderbird extension postings (partly because they seem to be rare). Would be a little better to have the election as a default though- sounds like we both may think that. > With TB v2 now adding many features that Eudora's long had, > I guess it might be luring more faithful Eudora fans away, > although I'm certainly not contemplating separation or divorce > in any foreseeable future for myself :) Besides TB passing the useability threshold, what turned me off on Eudora was the the mail archive hierarchy from the Mac was incompatible with the PC version (yeah, I know you can read individual messages, but no way to import and keep the structure... in human time). So since I was going to have to start again, I figured I'd use something that would be portable and supported (in line with cross- platform and open source thinking). Thanks again John. dan > Besides TB passing the useability threshold, what turned me off > on Eudora was the the mail archive hierarchy from the Mac was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I figured I'd use something that would be portable and supported > (in line with cross-platform and open source thinking). I haven't transferred between Mac and PC myself, but it's claimed to be mostly a matter of fixing line endings and adjusting file names, which doesn't sound insurmountable (what happens with transferring TB between Mac, PC, and Linux?) "Migrating from MAC to Windows" http://eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1333hq.html "Migrating From Windows to MAC" http://eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1644hq.html http://www.archive.org/ saves things for posterity, in case the above are retired in the future. In the Department of Irony: "How do I export e-mail messages to another mail program or computer?" http://www.mozilla.org/support/thunderbird/faq.html#mac_ab Thunderbird's mail files are in the standard plain text "mbox" format, which almost all mail programs can use or import. Many proprietary mail programs have a function to import from Eudora, which also uses the "mbox" format; this function should read your Mozilla mail files properly. "Can I Import from Thunderbird into Eudora?" [yes] http://groups.google.com/group/comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows/browse_thread/thread/ ae309ee6d3f0a10a -- > > Besides TB passing the useability threshold, what turned me off > > on Eudora was the the mail archive hierarchy from the Mac was [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > but it's claimed to be mostly a matter of fixing line endings > and adjusting file names, which doesn't sound insurmountable Eudora fixes the line endings ok, as I recall- and yes, you can read an email message, but I know of know way to automatically import an archive of hierarchical mailboxes- you have to do it manually. The indices etc. are/(at least were) not compatible. > (what happens with transferring TB between Mac, PC, and Linux?) > > "Migrating from MAC to Windows"http://eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1333hq.html This is old news. Alas it doesn't help- as mentioned you can read a mail message, just can't take in the structure. > "Migrating From Windows to MAC"http://eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1644hq.html > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > to import from Eudora, which also uses the "mbox" format; > this function should read your Mozilla mail files properly. Right, <chuckle, chuckle>, as PT Barnum said ...... > "Can I Import from Thunderbird into Eudora?" [yes]http://groups.google.com/group/comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows/browse_thr... As in Stardrek- where no man has gone before.... Cross your fingers, find a 4 leaf clove, don your skull cap, and chant~ Cheers > -- > Eudora fixes the line endings ok, as I recall- and yes, you can read > an email message, but I know of know way to automatically import an > archive of hierarchical mailboxes- you have to do it manually. Do you mean nested folders? Why can't you just copy everything as-is, and only append the "extensions" to mailbox file names (.mbx) and folders (.fol)? With the files (and folders) having those canonical names, Windows Eudora will automatically recognize all of them at once, as soon as it starts up (as it always has for me, when I've just dropped in new folders and mailboxes). > The indices etc. are/(at least were) not compatible. One copies only the mailbox files (the Mac index is now in the "resource fork" anyway; just ignore it); Eudora automatically builds a new index for every mailbox that doesn't have one (this is why one compacts all mailboxes before transferring, so that "deleted" messages don't undelete, although that isn't too serious even if forgotten). >> "Migrating from MAC to Windows" >> http://eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1333hq.html > This is old news. Alas it doesn't help- as mentioned you > can read a mail message, just can't take in the structure. What "structure" have you meant (other than line endings, as mentioned how to deal with in "migrating" instructions, although other programs also exist for automatic adjusting)? I know that we have had people migrate between Mac and Windows, only I wasn't involved, so I haven't heard these details before. -- |
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