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Mac Forum / Applications / Eudora / July 2006[Eudora 3] "HTML mail" handling
Hi all, for many reasons which do not matter here, I am "still" using Eudora 3.1.3 (light) for my home mail account on a Quadra 840AV with System 7.6. Apparently, when Eudora 3 came out in 1997, HTML mail was the latest and greatest, and Qualcomm felt they had to show off their support. As a result, Eudora unconditionally defaults to the text/html part of a mail with Content-Type: multipart/alternative. This fails miserably today because Eudora's HTML renderer does not know how to handle contemporary HTML. The result looks like crap, not to mention rendering 20 KBytes worth of HTML takes a looong time on mac68k. And it gets worse: Eudora 3 silently drops the "text/plain" part, keeping only the text/html part around. So here's my question: Does anyone know how to make Eudora 3 use the text/plain part of a multipart/alternative MIME mail - either by a secret option, or by a plugin that I did not come across? Alternatively, does anyone know about a server-side filtering application that can selectively strip the text/html section from MIME mails? Thanks for any comments, hauke > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > text/plain part of a multipart/alternative MIME mail - either by a > secret option, or by a plugin that I did not come across? I think your analysis is not correct, but I am not really able to test it myself (I probably have a copy of Eudora 3 somewhere and I've not quite retired my last 68k Mac, but I'd have to get the software onto that computer and find it some mail... ) Have you tried hitting the "blah blah blah" button on the mail? > Alternatively, does anyone know about a server-side filtering > application that can selectively strip the text/html section from MIME > mails? It really depends on what server you are using, but that functionality exists in the widely-used MIMEDefang add-on for sendmail and other filtering software.  SignatureNow where did I hide that website... > > Apparently, when Eudora 3 came out in 1997, HTML mail was the latest and > > greatest, and Qualcomm felt they had to show off their support. As a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I think your analysis is not correct, [...] At what point(s)? > Have you tried hitting the "blah blah blah" button on the mail? That gives me the source code for what Eudora tries to render. It explicitely does not give the text/plain part for a multipart message -- I've verified that by comparing the mail to what is on the server. Also, switching off text attributes in the setup only keeps Eudora from rendering those attributes. It still renders the text/html part, which can be seen by the messed-up layout and the glacial speed. > > Alternatively, does anyone know about a server-side filtering > > application that can selectively strip the text/html section from MIME [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > exists in the widely-used MIMEDefang add-on for sendmail and other > filtering software. Unfortunately, things like MIMEdefang know a good hundred tricks beside what I want them to do, and are a bear to configure - not to mention CPU demand. Beating Eudora into submission would definitely be my first choice. hauke SignatureNow without signature. > > > Apparently, when Eudora 3 came out in 1997, HTML mail was the latest and > > > greatest, and Qualcomm felt they had to show off their support. As a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > At what point(s)? I believed that your problem was Eudora hiding the text part, not eliminating it. It would seem that I am incorrect. I'm not sure how it is that I never noticed this bad behavior before, but it remains in 6.2.4. I guess that's one more thing for my list of things to hope for in Eudora 7... > > Have you tried hitting the "blah blah blah" button on the mail? > > That gives me the source code for what Eudora tries to render. It > explicitely does not give the text/plain part for a multipart message -- > I've verified that by comparing the mail to what is on the server. And I've just plowed back through 8 years of mail trying to figure out why I thought you'd see anything else. I was quite wrong. > Also, switching off text attributes in the setup only keeps Eudora from > rendering those attributes. It still renders the text/html part, which [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > what I want them to do, and are a bear to configure - not to mention CPU > demand. MD set up to do nothing but strip HTML parts would not be very hard to set up or be horribly demanding for CPU. If you don't use those hundred tricks like hooking into SpamAssassin or virus filters, the base functionality isn't really all that demanding. > Beating Eudora into submission would definitely be my first choice. I don't expect you'll find success there. SignatureNow where did I hide that website... > I believed that your problem was Eudora hiding the text part, not > eliminating it. It would seem that I am incorrect. I'm not sure how it > is that I never noticed this bad behavior before, but it remains in > 6.2.4. I, too, had never thought about this before, and was surprised to realize that current versions of Eudora do silently drop the text/plain part, and do not give you the full original mail in the "blah, blah" view. > I guess that's one more thing for my list of things to hope for in > Eudora 7... I probably should write up a bug report. IMO, Eudora ought to offer (1) a global setting to optionally give preference to text/plain (2) a menu command to override this for the foremost mail window (switching back and forth) (3) a filter command to set this as result of a filter match (think "white-list") Especially when Qualcomm adopt the MacOS X html rendering facilities in Eudora 7, they will become susceptible to potential bugs and exploits. Wearing my sysadmin cap, I need a way to avoid this. > > Unfortunately, things like MIMEdefang know a good hundred tricks beside > > what I want them to do, and are a bear to configure - not to mention CPU [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > tricks like hooking into SpamAssassin or virus filters, the base > functionality isn't really all that demanding. I came across Perljacket http://www.inwa.net/~m3047/perljacket/users-guide.html in the meantime, and it more or less does what I want. Unfortunately, its habit of turning any MIME sections other than text/plain into attachments includes pgp signed plaintext sections. But, since I have the source... > > Beating Eudora into submission would definitely be my first choice. > > I don't expect you'll find success there. You may be right there. Thanks for your comments, hauke SignatureNow without signature. > I, too, had never thought about this before, and was surprised to > realize that current versions of Eudora do silently drop the text/plain > part, and do not give you the full original mail in the "blah, blah" > view. I was surprised to learn this, too. Eudora shouldn't be in the business of stripping things out of our email. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. > I probably should write up a bug report. IMO, Eudora ought to offer > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (3) a filter command to set this as result of a filter match (think > "white-list") I agree that all of these would be very useful. Right now, there is (at least in my flavor of Eudora) the option under Settings->Styled Text to say that you don't want to "pay attention" to any of the following: bold; italic; underline; font; size; small sizes; color; left, right, center; margins; excerpts. However, turning all of those off doesn't quite get you want you want, I think, since the text is still stripped out and since what left to display can still be a bit of a mess. SignatureRoberta Millstein usenet@spamaway.rlm.net Remove "spamaway" to reply -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Eudora shouldn't be in the business > of stripping things out of our email. But they've been modifying mail content for years. Changing linefeeds to Mac from Unix, for example. The <x-stuff-for-pete> tag in HTML mail. etc etc... SignatureJulian Y. Koh <mailto:kohster@northwestern.edu> Network Engineer <phone:847-467-5780> Telecommunications and Network Services Northwestern University PGP Public Key:<http://bt.ittns.northwestern.edu/julian/pgppubkey.html> > > Eudora shouldn't be in the business > > of stripping things out of our email. > > But they've been modifying mail content for years. Changing linefeeds to Mac > from Unix, for example. The <x-stuff-for-pete> tag in HTML mail. etc etc... I guess I never thought about it before. But you did get me curious about the <x-stuff-for-pete> tag, which I had always wondered about (who is Pete? and why does he need stuff?). Luckily, the answer was readily available: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=32732 It seems to me that both of the examples you cite are less significant changes than removing the text portion of the email. Is there a reason to remove it? Couldn't Eudora just ignore it? How does other email software handle this: strip or ignore? The only benefit for the user that I can see for "strip" (and it is, perhaps, not an insignificant benefit over the long run) is that it reduces the size of the email that is stored. SignatureRoberta Millstein usenet@spamaway.rlm.net Remove "spamaway" to reply -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > It seems to me that both of the examples you cite are less significant > changes than removing the text portion of the email. They are. No question. But here's another example: attachments. SignatureJulian Y. Koh <mailto:kohster@northwestern.edu> Network Engineer <phone:847-467-5780> Telecommunications and Network Services Northwestern University PGP Public Key:<http://bt.ittns.northwestern.edu/julian/pgppubkey.html> > > It seems to me that both of the examples you cite are less significant > > changes than removing the text portion of the email. > > They are. No question. > > But here's another example: attachments. Ok, I'll bite. What's Eudora doing to our attachments? SignatureRoberta Millstein usenet@spamaway.rlm.net Remove "spamaway" to reply -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > > It seems to me that both of the examples you cite are less significant > > > changes than removing the text portion of the email. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Ok, I'll bite. What's Eudora doing to our attachments? It removes them from the body of the email and moves them to a separate folder. You may have Eudora set to display the attachments in the email window, but they are actually separated from the mail message and stored elsewhere. Eudora leaves links in the mail message, so that it can find them; but if you move your email to another machine it sometimes loses the links. SignatureKathy - post reviews of other newsgroups in news:news.groups.reviews help for new users at <http://www.aptalaska.net/~kmorgan/> Good Net Keeping Seal of Approval at <http://www.gnksa.org/> > Eudora leaves links in the mail message, so that it can find > them; but if you move your email to another machine it sometimes loses > the links. Unless the path to the new attachment folder is identical, it certainly loses the link. And if you move the attachment on the 'new' machine, it breaks the link too- unlike the original attachment whose link remains intact provided you have it on the same volume. I can live with this behaviour (I'm using Eudora with my wife on two Macs) but I wouldn't want to have to handle a large or complicated setup this way. My wish would be that the link between an attachment and a mail could be remade after the move. That would solve pretty well all my problems. SignaturePeter > > Ok, I'll bite. What's Eudora doing to our attachments? > > It removes them from the body of the email and moves them to a separate > folder. Or folders -- you can have your filters direct email from different sources to different folders. > You may have Eudora set to display the attachments in the email > window, No, I'm not *that* foolish. > but they are actually separated from the mail message and stored > elsewhere. I guess I've gotten so used to this behavior that I no longer think of it as modification. But you're right, it is. SignatureRoberta Millstein usenet@spamaway.rlm.net Remove "spamaway" to reply -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > You may have Eudora set to display the attachments in the email > > window, > > No, I'm not *that* foolish. I don't think there's any danger in displaying the attachments in the email window--I hope not, since I do display them. Of course, I have Eudora set to download only the first 40 kb, which stops most of the junk attachments. The danger is in automatically downloading linked graphics in HTML emails. SignatureKathy - Never mind about posting reviews of other newsgroups in news:news.groups.reviews - we're going to have it removed. > > > You may have Eudora set to display the attachments in the email > > > window, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I don't think there's any danger in displaying the attachments in the > email window--I hope not, since I do display them. There have been quite a few exploits where maliciously crafted jpegs, wma files, mp3 files and other such things have been used to make use of bugs in applications' display routines, typically buffer overruns. While these exploits may be more frequent on the Dark Side, the Mac is not per se safe from them. > Of course, I have Eudora set to download only the first 40 kb, which stops > most of the junk attachments. The danger is in automatically downloading > linked graphics in HTML emails. What is the difference between the graphic that you download via html link and the other you get attached to a mail (aside the fact, that the linked graphics may update a spammer's database)? hauke SignatureNow without signature. > > > > You may have Eudora set to display the attachments in the email > > > > window, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > link and the other you get attached to a mail (aside the fact, that the > linked graphics may update a spammer's database)? The difference is that the attached graphic comes along with the original e-mail message and provides no information to the sender. The embedded HTML link, however, forces the mail client to request the graphic file from the HTTP server, sending it the client's IP address along with any other information that may be included in the link. > The difference is that the attached graphic comes along with the > original e-mail message and provides no information to the sender. The > embedded HTML link, however, forces the mail client to request the > graphic file from the HTTP server, sending it the client's IP address > along with any other information that may be included in the link. But only if you request it. It may do this if you have set your prefs to Fonts and Display->Automatically download HTML graphics. Having this unchecked affords some protection. SignaturePeter > What is the difference between the graphic that you download via html > link and the other you get attached to a mail (aside the fact, that the > linked graphics may update a spammer's database)? Only that, that you may be updating the spammer's database. SignatureKathy - help for new users at <http://www.aptalaska.net/~kmorgan/> Good Net Keeping Seal of Approval at <http://www.gnksa.org/> > > Ok, I'll bite. What's Eudora doing to our attachments? > > It removes them from the body of the email and moves them to a separate > folder. And that is one of the main reasons why I'm using Eudora. I often get big attachments that I view, run, store, whatever. I do not want them to be in the mailfolder but want to keep the original mail without the attachment. I sincerely hope that does not change in the next version. Greetings from Germany, Bernd Fröhlich > > It removes them from the body of the email and moves them to a separate > > folder. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > in the mailfolder but want to keep the original mail without the > attachment. I sincerely hope that does not change in the next version. Yess, yes, yes, please do not change this! Greets, Klaus SignatureKlaus Hereth, München > for many reasons which do not matter here, I am "still" using Eudora > 3.1.3 (light) for my home mail account on a Quadra 840AV with System > 7.6. I'm "behind," too, although not nearly as much as you: I'm using 6.0.2 (paid mode). So, take that into account in my remarks below. > Apparently, when Eudora 3 came out in 1997, HTML mail was the latest and > greatest, and Qualcomm felt they had to show off their support. As a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > And it gets worse: Eudora 3 silently drops the "text/plain" part, > keeping only the text/html part around. What makes you think that you are being sent the text/plain part in the first place? I wouldn't be surprised if most of the businesses, etc., are only sending the text/html. Note that Eudora, at least in my flavor, can do this, too. Or, to put it in Eudora terms, you always have an option to send text only, text and styles, or styles only. What I am saying is that I think that much of the HTML mail that is sent out these days does only the latter. However, I just did a little test -- I sent myself some styled text, but told Eudora to send both the text/plain and the text/html. And yet, when I looked at the message I had sent myself with the "blah, blah, blah," I can see that you are right -- Eudora is indeed stripping off the text/plain part. So, there is no way for a Eudora user to determine the truth of my hypothesis. > So here's my question: Does anyone know how to make Eudora 3 use the > text/plain part of a multipart/alternative MIME mail - either by a > secret option, or by a plugin that I did not come across? Unfortunately, I know of no such option or plugin. Do let us know if you come across one. I handle this in two ways: 1. I'm pretty agressive about looking for delivery preferences; many of the companies that I do business with online allow you to say that you prefer to receive text-only messages. 2. I use the "Open in Browser" feature under the text menu. I don't know if your flavor of Eudora has that option. SignatureRoberta Millstein usenet@spamaway.rlm.net Remove "spamaway" to reply -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > This fails miserably today because Eudora's HTML renderer does not know > > how to handle contemporary HTML. The result looks like crap, not to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > What makes you think that you are being sent the text/plain part in the > first place? Since I have access to the server side both at home and at work (being the BOFH there), I am able to check what actually is in the mail spool. > I wouldn't be surprised if most of the businesses, etc., > are only sending the text/html. Actually, I don't see that much, and would take it as a sure sign of either UCE, or utter stupidity. > 1. I'm pretty agressive about looking for delivery preferences; many of > the companies that I do business with online allow you to say that you > prefer to receive text-only messages. Unfortunately, many don't. "The Atlantic", e.g., sends out 30 KByte chunks of HTML mail that regularly choke my poor Eudora. And when you contact them, they either do not understand what you want (since everyone uses Outlook anyway, right?), or they tell you in polite terms that they don't care enough to change the setup. > 2. I use the "Open in Browser" feature under the text menu. I don't > know if your flavor of Eudora has that option. Since the mac68k browsers are about as close to the trailing edge of technology as Eudora's rendering code, that is no help. hauke SignatureNow without signature. |
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