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Mac Forum / Programming / CodeWarrior / January 2004combobox on mac ?
Hello Is it possible to create the equivalent of a combobox on mac os X ? I am trying to do a combobox in a dialog, using resedit. ( yes i know it's old :) haven't found anything else to do the job ) I want to populate the list dynamically if that's possible. Thank you patrice. Le 26/12/03 14:06, dans 3fec3223$0$6978$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr, « patrox » <misterbanned@hotmail.com> a écrit : > Hello > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thank you > patrice. Panther has a true ComboBox support using HiToolBox. Have a look in this section. David -- David Scrève -- "La pile Wonder ne s'use que si l'on s'en sert." > Le 26/12/03 14:06, dans 3fec3223$0$6978$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr, > « patrox » <misterbanned@hotmail.com> a écrit : [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Panther has a true ComboBox support using HiToolBox. Have a look in this > section. So does Jaguar (although the version of IB that comes with Jaguar doesn't have it as part of its control palette) Fred > David > -- > David Scrève -- "La pile Wonder ne s'use que si l'on s'en sert." Le 26/12/03 16:19, dans Pine.LNX.4.44.0312261518360.4913-100000@kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk, « Frederick Cheung » <fglc2@srcf.DUH.ucam.org> a écrit : >> Panther has a true ComboBox support using HiToolBox. Have a look in this >> section. > So does Jaguar (although the version of IB that comes with Jaguar doesn't > have it as part of its control palette) I'm afraid that Jaguar does not have any ComboBox. You can do a sort of read only combo using the popup control. David -- David Scrève -- "L'excès est une vertu de la passion." > Le 26/12/03 16:19, dans > Pine.LNX.4.44.0312261518360.4913-100000@kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'm afraid that Jaguar does not have any ComboBox. You can do a sort of > read only combo using the popup control. Not true. Have a look in HIView.h Fred > David > -- > David Scrève -- "L'excès est une vertu de la passion." > Is it possible to create the equivalent of a combobox on mac os X ? Yes. However, the combo box is generally considered a poor piece of UI, and I would suggest looking for an alternative. How do you plan on using it? Some reading: <http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ComboBox.html> > > Is it possible to create the equivalent of a combobox on mac os X ? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Some reading: > <http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ComboBox.html> The article you quote and the advice you give predate the existence of combo box widgets on Mac OS X and are relevant only in the context of discussing combo box behavior on windows in comparison to Mac OS alternatives. Mac OS X combo box behavior is different from windows combo box behavior and that entire article does not apply to it. Read <http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelin es/XHIGControls/chapter_18_section_3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000359/BAAGGAHH hth meeroh  SignatureIf this message helped you, consider buying an item from my wish list: <http://web.meeroh.org/wishlist> > The article you quote and the advice you give predate the existence of combo > box [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > behavior is different from windows combo box behavior and that entire article > does not apply to it. Meeroh, Of course these are good points, and I also encourage the OP to read the HIG. But just as people on these (and similar forums) are always asking posters 'why?' when they ask how to code something, I believe the 'why?' question is also imporant in a UI context. I have seem many applications use combo boxes where popup menus would be better. Consider System Preferences > Date & Time > Time Zone. As you quoted, the HIG says "Combo boxes are useful for displaying a list of likely choices while still allowing the user to type in an item not in the list." The latter condition is not permitted in the "Closest City" combo box, try entering a City named "blah blah". It forbids it, and allows only items in its predefined list. That's what a popup menu is for. Also popup menus have much nicer scrolling than combo boxes, the latter putting up an annoying scroll bar. Combo boxes also don't allow 'cancelling' once you start scrolling, even if you move the mouse out of the scroll bar; popup menus do. etc. etc. So my advice to the OP is please read the HIG and don't use the combo box unless your usage matches the HIG; even then don't necessarily use it. Don't use it just because that's what your Windows app uses. > Consider System Preferences > Date & Time > Time Zone. As you quoted, the > HIG says "Combo boxes are useful for displaying a list of likely choices [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > scrolling, even if you move the mouse out of the scroll bar; popup menus do. > etc. etc. Actually, the D&T panel has a reasonable case for using a combo box: it permits you to type in a partial city name and allows you to get auto-completion. You can't get type-and-complete with a popup menu, and, quite frankly, I want to type in a city name, not select it from a list of, well, too many. Also, clicking on the popup button cancels the list, and it is cued by the appearance of the popup button: when you click on it to display the list, the popup button changes appearance to the standard toggle button pushed appearance. Also, scrolling through a long list bar is heck of a lot easier in a list with a scroll bar than it is in a menu, because the menu permits no way for you to say "the item I want is near the middle of the menu", only "the item I want is further down", whereas a list permits you both modes of operation. I don't think that combo boxes are nearly as bad as you make them sound -- when they are used right. > So my advice to the OP is please read the HIG and don't use the combo box > unless your usage matches the HIG; even then don't necessarily use it. Don't > use it just because that's what your Windows app uses. This goes for any control and is sound advice in general. I completely agree. meeroh SignatureIf this message helped you, consider buying an item from my wish list: <http://web.meeroh.org/wishlist> > Actually, the D&T panel has a reasonable case for using a combo box: it > permits > you to type in a partial city name and allows you to get auto-completion. You > can't get type-and-complete with a popup menu, and, quite frankly, I want to > type in a city name, not select it from a list of, well, too many. Good point. I've been thinking about this a bit. Popup menus lend themselves well to choosing amongst finite (but small) choices. The visual indication being a list from which you can choose one thing. Input is done by mouse, so there's no type-ahead/auto-completion. Edit fields lend themselves well to specifying from infinite choices. The visual indication being a box where one can type anything. Input is done by keyboard, so type-ahead/auto-completion is possible (think new Panther search edit fields) (Yes, its a bit of a simplification, there's the accessibility stuff allowing keyboard use of popups and Inkwell allowing tablet input for editfields, but let's stay simple) A combo box is a combination of 1) a popup menu and 2) an edit field. From the AHIG description its supposed to be for: infinite choices but with many common predefined possibilites. A common use I've seen is, say, font sizes, where I can type any font size I want, but the common ones are in the popup. But the D&T use case is for: a large but finite number of choices. You cannot enter cities the OS does not know about. The problem here is that the combo box control's visual appearance ('box where one can type anything') implies that the user *can* type anything. And if one does not allow anything to be typed one has created a UI inconsistancy. So what to use? A popup is not right, because, as you said, popups should not have billions of items. Also there is no type-ahead/auto-completion with popups. Is there a correct control? I think so: a list box! It provides for choosing one of a large finite set and it can support type ahead. One possible drawback is that it takes more space. Curiously, I find no mention of the venerable list box in the AHIG's 'Selection Controls' section you mentionned. But in the good old OS 8 HIG, imagine what I found: <http://developer.apple.com/documentation/mac/HIGOS8Guide/thig-25.html> (I love the example screenshot :) ) The AHIG does say about popup menus: 'For more than 12 items; use a scrolling list unless space is restricted'. They don't say what to use if space is restricted though, but some people seem to be choosing combo boxes. IAC, I don't think space is restricted in the D&T case, considering the height of that map picture! And have you noticed that the combo box's popup component looks much more like a list box than a popup menu. I think some people are using the combo box like a condensed one line list box. Maybe such a control is needed, but it should not be one and the same as the combo box. They need to look different since they do different things. I have not thought about what kind of visual distinction could be used. > I don't think that combo boxes are nearly as bad as you make them sound -- > when they are used right. I think I agree with you here now, I guess its just that I find almost no one uses them right. If you're still reading, thanks :) > The AHIG does say about popup menus: 'For more than 12 items; use a > scrolling list unless space is restricted'. They don't say what to use > if space is restricted though, but some people seem to be choosing combo > boxes. IAC, I don't think space is restricted in the D&T case, > considering the height of that map picture! I think the HIG are thinking the opposite way you are: if space is restricted then use a scrolling list for less than 12 items, i.e. if space is restricted, you might use a scrolling list with say only 8 items. Spence > > The AHIG does say about popup menus: 'For more than 12 items; use a > > scrolling list unless space is restricted'. They don't say what to use [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > space is restricted, you might use a scrolling list with say only 8 > items. I'm afraid I don't follow you. :( I think they are saying: if you have 12 items or less go ahead and use a popup menu (this is in the popup menu section BTW). If you have more than 12 items, and plenty of space, use a scrolling list. > > I don't think that combo boxes are nearly as bad as you make them sound -- > > when they are used right. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If you're still reading, thanks :) Generally I agree with you, but I think that in the D&T case either a list or a combo box would have been fine choices, except for the fact that a list makes the type-select less obvious, and the combo box make it more explicit to the user. Besides, the D&T picture looks very nice, so it deserves more space :-) meeroh SignatureIf this message helped you, consider buying an item from my wish list: <http://web.meeroh.org/wishlist> > However, the combo box is generally considered a poor piece of UI, and I > would suggest looking for an alternative. How do you plan on using it? I want to display a list of languages. ( English german etc.. ) pat. > > However, the combo box is generally considered a poor piece of UI, and I > > would suggest looking for an alternative. How do you plan on using it? > > I want to display a list of languages. ( English german etc.. ) If you are providing support for a small set of languages, then it makes no sense to allow the user to type in something else. Use a popup menu. If you just want to know what the user's favorite language is, but don't intend to actually do anything with that information, think again. > If you are providing support for a small set of languages, then it makes > no sense to allow the user to type in something else. Use a popup menu. > > If you just want to know what the user's favorite language is, but don't > intend to actually do anything with that information, think again. What's the difference between a popupmenu and a combobox ? ( it's the same to me ) Is there a list of controls with a picture somewhere ? pat. > > If you are providing support for a small set of languages, then it makes > > no sense to allow the user to type in something else. Use a popup menu. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > What's the difference between a popupmenu and a combobox ? ( it's the same > to me ) a popup menu behaves exactly like a normal menu apart from being a control and not part of the menu bar, whereas a combobox is a combination of an edit control and a scrolling list, and allow you to type something not in the list > Is there a list of controls with a picture somewhere ? > pat. Look at the Aqua Human Interface Guidelines. Fred > Hello > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thank you > patrice. We've used the equivalent of a combo-box with the drop-down-list option since forever in MacOS. We use a user-item in ResEdit and then wrote the code to make it into what Apple calls a "pop-up menu". Kaydell We've used the equivalent of a combo-box with the drop-down-list > option since forever in MacOS. We use a user-item in ResEdit and then > wrote the code to make it into what Apple calls a "pop-up menu". Ok, a popup menu is what i wanted then ( it's called combobox with a simple dropdrown style on pc ) sorry about that. pat. > We've used the equivalent of a combo-box with the drop-down-list > > option since forever in MacOS. We use a user-item in ResEdit and then [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > sorry about that. > pat. No problem, We started with popups about 16 years ago. Modern technology would suggest using a popup menu control instead of a user-item. (That's what I'm told anyway, but since we've done it one way already, I'm not sure that I should change). Let me know if you get a popup menu control working. One of my co-workers has been hounding me to upgrade our popup menus to look better. Maybe a pop-up control would be better than what we're using now. Kaydell Kaydell > > We've used the equivalent of a combo-box with the drop-down-list > > > option since forever in MacOS. We use a user-item in ResEdit and then [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > better. Maybe a pop-up control would be better than what we're using > now. Here is an example, as a .r file: #include <types.r> resource 'CNTL' (128) { {68, 64, 92, 380}, 0, visible, 60, 128, 1008, 0, "Number:" }; resource 'MENU' (128) { 128, textMenuProc, allEnabled, enabled, " ", { "1", noIcon, noKey, noMark, plain, "2", noIcon, noKey, noMark, plain "3", noIcon, noKey, noMark, plain "4", noIcon, noKey, noMark, plain "5", noIcon, noKey, noMark, plain } }; resource 'DLOG' (128) { {89, 54, 236, 458}, movableDBoxProc, invisible, noGoAway, 0x0, 128, "", alertPositionMainScreen }; resource 'dctb' (128) {{ }}; resource 'DITL' (128, purgeable) {{ {105, 274, 125, 349}, Button { enabled, "OK" }, {105, 176, 125, 251}, Button { enabled, "Cancel" }, {16, 64, 56, 384}, StaticText { disabled, "Your prompt here." }, {68, 64, 92, 380}, Control { enabled, 128 } }}; ------------------- Note that the DITL includes a Control item, which in turn references a CNTL resource, which specifies a procID of 1008, which is the standard for a mac popup menu (see ControlDefinitions.h) The CNTL also gives the menu id of the menu for it to use, the width of the title area (60), and the title. GetControlValue gives you the ones based index of which menu item is selected. If you need hierarchical menus, rethink your U.I. or use PopUpMenuSelect with a userItem. -- David Phillip Oster |
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